[AMRadio] Negative Loading circuits - good, bad, or ?


Larry Will lhwill at verizon.net
Wed Jan 11 22:40:06 EST 2006


Hi Bacon,

I understand your thinking on your clipper.  As you and others stated 
the bottom line is spectral measurements to check for 
splatter.  Trapizoids and "A" scopes just don't show the real results.

As to the 5 kcs for Clear Channel, that is a requirement for IBOC or 
HD radio on AM.  The digital data starts at +/- 5 kc from the carrier 
and extents outward for at least 15 kc, in other words the occupied 
BW is now 40 khz.  On wideband radios you can hear the digital "hiss" 
thru the AM diode demod if the baseband passband is over 5 kcs.

Tune to the 1st adj and you hear the hiss which sounds like an 
elevated noise floor and has been a real problem at night especially 
for the clear channel stations.  That's why the FCC still has not 
authorized IBOC after sundown.  tests at night over the last few 
years at WCKY (WSAI) resulted in Canada filing an objection with the 
US over IX so its basically stopped nighttime testing or regular use of IBOC.

There are also issues with directional arrays with high Q (RSS to 
RMS).  The array behaves so much differently on the 1st adjacent 
channels that IBOC either doesn't work or causes IX to stations 
located in the nulls.

building a DA array on say 600 kcs with a 40 kcs pattern bandwidth is 
no easy feat.

Larry


.

>I understand that one large AM network - Clear Channel,
>I believe - is cutting their AM audio bandwidth to 5
>KHz to make distant AM reception better (less splash
>from adjacent channels).
>
>I remember back in the late 60s, a little 250 watt
>daytime station on 540 KHz in Islip, Long Island ran
>some sort of clipping to sound louder.  I don't know
>about splatter, but it really didn't sound good that
>way.  It was pretty loud, though.
>
>But in amateur operation, some gentle curvature can
>curb the peaks that would get sharply snipped off by
>overmodulation, without a lot of splatter.  Overall, it
>would probably reduce the general splatter level
>somewhat.  Also it would be useful to have some kind of
>diode and resistor to catch peaks that do overmodulate,
>and keep them from making a voltage spike that could
>blow the modulation transformer.  But if the circuit is
>being used to achieve high audio levels, then a low
>pass filter ought to follow the diodes.  And the
>transient performance of the filter must be such that
>overshoot is minimized, because overshoot would
>overmodulate and splatter too.  Generally a
>non-overshoot filter gives a soft cutoff rather than a
>sharp cutoff, unless it is complex and high order.
>
>I use low level asymmetrical clipping, and I can filter
>that with a 3.5 KHz low-pass filter in crowded
>conditions when I push the clipper hard.  I
>accidentally found that a side chain servo loop could
>have its time constant aligned with the modulator, and
>produce very good clipping control, so that's how I do
>it.  The clipper is really a limited amount of
>extremely fast peak limiting compression, with a time
>constant around a millisecond or so, riding on the
>slower 0.2 second time constant of the peak limiter,
>with a slower time constant coupled on a resistive
>divider for some slow average compression action as
>well.  using a moderately complex RC network as a gain
>control loop filter.  Because of this time constant,
>sibilents are treated with a more peak limiting action
>so there is less intermodulation, and lower frequency
>stuff is softly clipped.  I shorten the time constant
>and increase the audio drive to push this harder,
>accepting some distortion for punch.  When I push it
>like that, I use the low-pass filter, which is just a
>second-order Sallen-Key.  I got a comment on how narrow
>the signal was, and yet it sounded clear because of
>upper midrange boost.  The millisecond range time
>constant of the servo-clipper avoids a lot of high
>frequency harmonic generation before the audio hits the
>filter.
>
>  Bacon, WA3WDR
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry Will" <lhwill at verizon.net>
>To: "Discussion of AM Radio" <amradio at mailman.qth.net>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:07 PM
>Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Negative Loading circuits -
>good, bad, or ?
>
>
> > Bacon,
> >
> >
> > I'll pull out a copy of the NRSC spec on the  AM
>B'CST audio shelving
> > filter when I get a chance and pass along some
>details.
> >
> >
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > At 11:16 AM 1/11/2006, you wrote:
> > >Any distortion of the modulating waveform causes
> > >harmonic distortion and therefore splatter.  The
> > >sharper a waveform discontinuity is, the more
> > >high-level harmonic energy it contains, and that
> > >harmonic energy becomes splatter on the air.  This
> > >is why a low-pass filter is used in speech
> > >clipping systems.  But the sharp clipping caused
> > >by overmodulation can not be filtered at the audio
> > >level.
> > >
> > >The extreme sharpness of clipping resulting from
> > >overmodulation is the reason that overmodulation
> > >causes so much splatter.  The idea of the diode
> > >loading system is to produce a softer clipping
> > >that produces much less splatter than raw
> > >overmodulation.  Additional diodes and resistors
> > >are often added to provide protective loading for
> > >the modulator on negative peaks that would have
> > >been unloaded in simple diode systems or with no
> > >diodes at all.  This protective loading reduces
> > >voltage spikes that can destroy the modulation
> > >transformer.
> > >
> > >Some distortion is still produced with the diode
> > >loading system, and therefore some splatter will
> > >result.  But unless there is some other problem,
> > >the splatter is much less severe than raw
> > >overmodulation, and the high frequency products
> > >caused by this action can be filtered at the audio
> > >level.  You can add a high level splatter filter,
> > >although that will limit your high frequency
> > >response.  You can have a few filters or a few
> > >filter settings, like 10 KHz for clear conditions,
> > >6 KHz for intermediate conditions, and 3.5 KHz for
> > >crowded conditions.
> > >
> > >Some technical problems can cause extra splatter.
> > >If the modulator is marginally stable, it is
> > >possible that the dynamic change in loading
> > >resulting from the diode action can cause
> > >triggered parasitics at specific points on the
> > >audio waveform.  This can result significant
> > >splatter, and it might have a distinctive resonant
> > >sound, which you would hear as resonances or
> > >concentrated spectral points in the splatter on a
> > >sideband receiver tuned some distance from the
> > >carrier.  Negative feedback can cause problems if
> > >gain and phase margins are exceeded, which often
> > >happens at frequency extremes, and this can result
> > >in triggered parasitics even if diode loading is
> > >not used.  If there is a modulator stability issue
> > >at high audio frequencies, it can cause splatter.
> > >
> > >Excessive modulation of the screen grid of a
> > >plate-modulated tetrode or pentode modulated stage
> > >can cause sharp distortion too.  You can see a
> > >kink at about 85% negative when this occurs, and
> > >that means you have a waveform discontinuity that
> > >can cause significant splatter that can not be
> > >filtered at the audio level.  The typical circuit
> > >of the screen dropping resistor going to modulated
> > >B+ should be modified for better linearity.  A
> > >good job can be done by simply connecting the top
> > >of the screen dropping resistor to unmodulated B+
> > >and allowing the screen grid to self-modulate, but
> > >the best arrangement uses a resistive divider
> > >supplying the screen from modulated B+ and
> > >unmodulated B+.  Screen-choke systems are
> > >self-modulating and do not exhibit that
> > >distortion.
> > >
> > >Class C Optimization for Ultra Low Distortion
> > >http://www.amfone.net/AMPX/71.htm
> > >
> > >The self-modulated screen grid
> > >http://www.amfone.net/AMPX/98.htm
> > >
> > >Remember also that your receiver can be listening
> > >to a really strong signal while you are testing in
> > >the shack.  The splatter that you hear on that
> > >strong signal in the shack may be mild on a normal
> > >signal on the air, and the receiver can be adding
> > >to the problem is it is overloading.
> > >
> > >   Bacon, WA3WDR
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Brett gazdzinski"
> > ><Brett.gazdzinski at mci.com>
> > >To: "'Discussion of AM Radio'"
> > ><amradio at mailman.qth.net>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:22 AM
> > >Subject: RE: [AMRadio] Negative Loading circuits -
> > >good, bad, or ?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dennis,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I've had good results with the "three diode"
> > >circuit too.   Earliest
> > > > > reference to the scheme I can find is in QST,
> > >October 1956
> > > > > using 866 rectifiers.
> > > > > Covered again in ER #3, July 1989, this time
> > >with solid state
> > > > > diodes.
> > > >
> > > > I did not say I had good luck with the circuit,
> > >although it looks
> > > > like it works on the scope, and on the mod
> > >monitor, it results
> > > > in a very wide signal. Not much point in running
> > >it if you go
> > > > 50Kc wide...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Don't believe the type of diodes used would
> > >have any
> > > > > significant effect on
> > > > > this.   Splatter is generated in the PA tank
> > >circuit when
> > > > > plate voltage is
> > > > > suddenly cut off   on the audio negative half
> > >cycle.   Same
> > > > > splatter would be
> > > > > produced if the PA was being fed straight off
> > >the secondary
> > > > > of the mod transformer.
> > > >
> > > > The 3 diode circuit is supposed to prevent the
> > >plate voltage
> > > > from going to zero. I use variacs on the power
> > >supply so I can set
> > > > the point at which the circuit starts working,
> > >and no matter if I
> > > > set it to 95, 90, or 85% I get splatter if the
> > >audio would exceed
> > > > 100% negative, so the circuit seems to do no
> > >good.
> > > >
> > > > It LOOKS like it works, I get current in the
> > >negative cycle loading
> > > > circuit, mod monitor shows the limiting working,
> > >scope looks ok,
> > > > the signal just gets REAL wide, no matter what
> > >rig I run.
> > > >
> > > > Everyone would assume it works, I did, till I
> > >got reports I was real wide
> > > > and dug out the spectrum analyzer...
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps the very high frequency stuff gets past
> > >the circuit?
> > > > I should run some tests...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Brett
> > > > N2DTS
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis D. W7QHO
> > > > > Glendale, CA
> > > >
> > > >
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