[AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 7


Norb Sichterman nsichterman at yahoo.com
Sat Nov 2 18:31:49 EDT 2013


I want to thank you all for replying to this thread. I have gotten alot of insight and I have been anxious to get on 75 meters or 160 if I can find a way to get a good antenna up. I have been around AM all my life. My dad was a ham until 1962 and sold all of his equipment (mostly ARC5 and home brew stuff). The one thing he did keep was his Hallicrafters S-40A and in 1963 when I was about 12 years of age I started playing with it and there were a bunch of people talking to each other and my mother explained what amateur radio was. I have been hooked on ham radio and AM ever sicne.
Norb KF0XO



On Saturday, November 2, 2013 4:10 PM, "amradio-request at mailman.qth.net" <amradio-request at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
  
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 6 (Jim Candela)
   2. Re: AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 6 (Todd, KA1KAQ)
   3. Re: AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 6 (Jim Candela)
   4. Re: AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 3 (Rob Atkinson)
   5. Re: AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 6 (Rob Atkinson)
   6. Re: AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 3 (Norb Sichterman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 09:46:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Candela <jcandela at prodigy.net>
To: "amradio at mailman.qth.net" <amradio at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 6
Message-ID:
    <1383410804.51848.YahooMailNeo at web184804.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1



From:

Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 03:09:04 -0500
From: "Ross Stenberg" <k9cox at charter.net>


"The difference between 100 watts and 400 watts (just over the legal AM?
limit) is 6 dB or 1 S unit on a properly calibrated receiver."

? ? ? ? 73 Ross K9COX


>>>I plan to get on and see what I can do with a hundred watts and a dipole.


Well said. The trick I find on 75M AM when running lower power is to do so in the late afternoon or early evening before the band goes long (gets noisy). Also sometimes good results can be had in the morning like 7 to 9 am or so after the long hall stuff goes away.

One important thing is that the "Tall Ships" by virtue of their strong carriers can get away with low average modulation, and even poorly equalized audio (way too much bass). When receiving these guys as heard across the country all that is left is an S9 carrier with only the occasional word legible. Then some guy from the same distance with nothing more then a DX-100 combined with a D-104, and the copy is 100X better despite the 6DB reduction in carrier strength.

Running low power AM on the low bands, to be successful, needs to be well modulated, and equalized to fit in the receivers 5-6 Khz bandwidth. This does not take hundred of dollars worth of audio processors, equalizers, etc. What it takes is a transmitter that can modulate cleanly up to 100% (or higher on upward peaks), a scope to monitor the RF envelope, and just a D-104 loaded into somewhere around 500K to 1.5 meg (depending on your voice, and preference). Then phase the audio polarity (try swapping wires on the D-104) such that any asymmetry in your voice is phased such that the downward modulation gets the lower amplitude. This allows you to boost the average (sometimes 2X) without negative peak clipping.

I have worked across Texas with a tweaked Retro-75 at 2 watts carrier. I did this several times at about 9 AM on 3880. The Retro-75 was peaking about 140% modulation, and the audio off the S0 carrier was still heard Q5. Boosting to 70 watts at 9PM and later, I could go across country. In the early evenings I sometimes get in there with my G-76 at 55 watts carrier. With a high average modulation, and good equalization, I 'm often louder (audio into receiver speaker) then the big dogs running 400 watts carrier...

When the band goes long, and local propagation is lost, The only ones who really do well are those running QRO, and are well modulated without an abundance of bass. Three guys stand out to me that always seem to do well, WA1HLR, WA1QIX, and K4KYV.

Jim
Wd5JKO

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 14:44:30 -0400
From: "Todd, KA1KAQ" <ka1kaq at gmail.com>
To: Jim Candela <jcandela at prodigy.net>
Cc: "amradio at mailman.qth.net" <amradio at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 6
Message-ID:
    <CANCs6AV5AfKmjkhaUiH47BsA4e07SrvV1hTZ2nG0xCFMQqdsEA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Jim Candela <jcandela at prodigy.net> wrote:

>
> The trick I find on 75M AM when running lower power is to do so in the
> late afternoon or early evening before the band goes long (gets noisy).
> Also sometimes good results can be had in the morning like 7 to 9 am or so
> after the long hall stuff goes away.
>

That's true Jim, but Norb had mentioned Friday nights which is why my
comments were based on 'prime time' conditions which include a lot of noise
and interference. Never had trouble being heard with my 32V during the day
on 75 or even into early evening before things got loud.

One important thing is that the "Tall Ships" by virtue of their strong
> carriers can get away with low average modulation, and even poorly
> equalized audio (way too much bass). When receiving these guys as heard
> across the country all that is left is an S9 carrier with only the
> occasional word legible. Then some guy from the same distance with nothing
> more then a DX-100 combined with a D-104, and the copy is 100X better
> despite the 6DB reduction in carrier strength.
>

Nothing is more frustrating than to have someone coming in at a level of S9
or even +10 and only get 60% of what they're saying due to undermodulation.
Unfortunately though, the 100w stations don't seem to due a lot better at
night on 75, even with good audio. Again, just due to the nature of that
band. Does anyone run 100 watts on 160 over any distance with regular
success? Have spent little time there.

In the early evenings I sometimes get in there with my G-76 at 55 watts
> carrier. With a high average modulation, and good equalization, I 'm often
> louder (audio into receiver speaker) then the big dogs running 400 watts
> carrier...
>

What do you run on 40, Jim? Some nights I hear you pretty well, but Jay and
Brandon seem to be the channel masters there. And of course, Robert/VMC,
when he's on. 40m offers some great opportunities to lower power stations,
with a trade off taken into account for its fickle band conditions like
sudden drop outs.

~ Todd/KAQ


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 13:07:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Candela <jcandela at prodigy.net>
To: "Todd, KA1KAQ" <ka1kaq at gmail.com>
Cc: "amradio at mailman.qth.net" <amradio at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 6
Message-ID:
    <1383422846.65468.YahooMailNeo at web184801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1





________________________________
From: "Todd, KA1KAQ" <ka1kaq at gmail.com>
To: Jim Candela <jcandela at prodigy.net> 
Cc: "amradio at mailman.qth.net" <amradio at mailman.qth.net> 
Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 6

What do you run on 40, Jim? Some nights I hear you pretty well, but Jay and Brandon seem to be the channel masters there. And of course, Robert/VMC, when he's on. 40m offers some great opportunities to lower power stations, with a trade off taken into account for its fickle band conditions like sudden drop outs. 



~ Todd/KAQ


?? Todd, no big power house here. I run my Gonset G76 +? Gonset GSB-201 on all bands from 80M to 20M. On 15 I drop the amp. The combo gives me 140 watts carrier with headroom for about 130% +/- positive peaks. This is what I have been using on the 20M Monday night AM gathering on 14,330. 

The antenna here is either a 80M inv V (OCF) up 38' or a 15m FW vertical loop (16'W X 8' high with bottom 7' off the ground). The loop with OWL can be tuned 80-10m, but works best on 40-15m. On 40m, Robert W0VMC sometimes heres me better on the loop, but usually the 80M OCF prevails. I use the loop on 20m Monday night except out west, or in Florida where the OCF prevails since the loop is in the null.

I can seldom here Brandon or Jay here as they are just too close on 40M 7290 evening get togethers.

Jim
Wd5JKO

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 16:56:28 -0500
From: Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo at gmail.com>
To: Norb Sichterman <nsichterman at yahoo.com>
Cc: "amradio at mailman.qth.net" <amradio at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 3
Message-ID:
    <CALWD7Z4UvHoo4wMogAS06NT_qjqEJG0e-GK7dhVXDwwO+4XiuQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Norb,

In the future please trim your digest response posts so we don't get
the whole digest.



On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Norb Sichterman <nsichterman at yahoo.com> wrote:


>There are many reasons that people don't have boat anchor transmitters and receivers, don't work 160 meters

What are the reasons for not working 160 meters?  As I am trying to
get more AM on 160 I am curious.


73

Rob
K5UJ


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 17:04:21 -0500
From: Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo at gmail.com>
To: "Todd, KA1KAQ" <ka1kaq at gmail.com>
Cc: "amradio at mailman.qth.net" <amradio at mailman.qth.net>,    Jim Candela
    <jcandela at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 6
Message-ID:
    <CALWD7Z4oskvxuD3gZAtR8j9tDkKiY3Yv6CAdUSG733iBU_XpCQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Todd, KA1KAQ <ka1kaq at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Nothing is more frustrating than to have someone coming in at a level of S9
> or even +10 and only get 60% of what they're saying due to undermodulation.
> Unfortunately though, the 100w stations don't seem to due a lot better at
> night on 75, even with good audio. Again, just due to the nature of that
> band. Does anyone run 100 watts on 160 over any distance with regular
> success? Have spent little time there.

What's most important than anything for 100 w. success is the antenna.
Especially on 160.

There are hams around here on 160 with ~100 w. EFJ gear; they do okay
within 150 miles or so but the determining factor is the antenna more
than the power.   Unfortunately many hams operate 160 with the idea
that what worked okay on 75 will work (conceptually) on 160.  Usually
not true.  For most of us some kind of vertical radiator over a good
ground system, and separate rx antennas is the best way to joy on 160.
Things change for a few months later in the evening.  When the band
is good and the local time is after around 10 p.m., lower power and a
cloud burner can do okay when not in a deep fade.  A lot of that has
to do with lack of QRM and local RFI on the rx end.

73

Rob
K5UJ


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 15:10:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Norb Sichterman <nsichterman at yahoo.com>
To: Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo at gmail.com>
Cc: "amradio at mailman.qth.net" <amradio at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 118, Issue 3
Message-ID:
    <1383430214.7386.YahooMailNeo at web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

>What are the reasons for not working 160 meters?  As I am trying to
? get more AM on 160 I am curious.
?
?
My problem is with room. I have a small city lot and the only supports I have?are some Radioshack masts to support everything. Even the price of these have become rediculous about thirty bucks for ten feet. Another problem I have is there are no hamfests with in 300 miles of where I live. I guess I could build an 80 meter inverted vee and bring the ends back toward the center or something. I also could build a verticle helix on PVC but I? don't have enough room for radials.
What frequency do you use on 160?
?



On Saturday, November 2, 2013 3:56 PM, Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo at gmail.com> wrote:
  
Hi Norb,

In the future please trim your digest response posts so we don't get
the whole digest.



On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Norb Sichterman <nsichterman at yahoo.com> wrote:


>There are many reasons that people don't have boat anchor transmitters and receivers, don't work 160 meters

What are the reasons for not working 160 meters?? As I am trying to
get more AM on 160 I am curious.



73

Rob
K5UJ

------------------------------

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