From w5jo at brightok.net Thu Oct 1 09:33:34 2015 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:33:34 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] W5KGZ Message-ID: Does anyone have any information about Perry? I haven't heard him on the radio in so long that I can't recall, nor have I seen an email from him. Lately his email account has been disabled. Jim W5JO From Foltarz at rocketmail.com Thu Oct 1 22:02:19 2015 From: Foltarz at rocketmail.com (Mark Foltarz) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 02:02:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] Stone Mountain Georgia hamfest Message-ID: <2028670023.61416.1443751339695.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Anyone attending the Stone Mountain, GA ?meet in November ? It appears to be a large ?ham fest based on what I have seen. de KA4JVY Mark From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 3 10:00:05 2015 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 07:00:05 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook Message-ID: <1443880805.95759.YahooMailBasic@web160605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've been trying to find this info with no luck so far. Does anybody have a correlation between Orr's Radio Handbook edition number and the year of print? As far as I know, he did not do them every year like the ARRL does the Handbook. Looking for one the edition that was printed in 1953, or was current in 1953. Thanks. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From w5jo at brightok.net Sat Oct 3 10:44:11 2015 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:44:11 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook In-Reply-To: <1443880805.95759.YahooMailBasic@web160605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1443880805.95759.YahooMailBasic@web160605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <75E469FF41574CED8313EC808E4741D9@JimPC> Charlie, That would be an edition between the 10th (1946) and 15th (1959). Sorry I can't be more specific but those are the ones I have. Maybe someone can fill in the blanks. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- From: CL in NC Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 9:00 AM To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Subject: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook I've been trying to find this info with no luck so far. Does anybody have a correlation between Orr's Radio Handbook edition number and the year of print? As far as I know, he did not do them every year like the ARRL does the Handbook. Looking for one the edition that was printed in 1953, or was current in 1953. Thanks. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From edwmullin at aol.com Sat Oct 3 11:17:29 2015 From: edwmullin at aol.com (edwmullin at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 11:17:29 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] nz: (8) Message-ID: <1502e47826e-2e47-2b27a@webstg-m08.mail.aol.com> http://ateliemm.com/ecumsbr.php Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt any_body. Byron Rome From farrerfolks at yahoo.com Sat Oct 3 11:21:41 2015 From: farrerfolks at yahoo.com (Mel Farrer) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 15:21:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] Bill Orrs Book Message-ID: <824510443.742812.1443885701589.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I have the 14th edition printed in 1956.? What are you looking for Charlie? Mel, K6KBE From rbethman at comcast.net Sat Oct 3 13:03:38 2015 From: rbethman at comcast.net (rbethman) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:03:38 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook In-Reply-To: <75E469FF41574CED8313EC808E4741D9@JimPC> References: <1443880805.95759.YahooMailBasic@web160605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <75E469FF41574CED8313EC808E4741D9@JimPC> Message-ID: <56100A6A.3060907@comcast.net> Charlie, Jim, and all others, I have the 13th Edition published in 1951. This may be the elusive one. I also have the 16th, and the 21st. Like most, I don't have them all, but a shotgun number that flows with enough material that covers most anything. Having said that, what are you specifically looking for Charlie? Regards, Bob - N0DGN On 10/3/2015 10:44 AM, w5jo at brightok.net wrote: > Charlie, > > That would be an edition between the 10th (1946) and 15th (1959). > Sorry I can't be more specific but those are the ones I have. > > Maybe someone can fill in the blanks. > > Jim > W5JO > > -----Original Message----- From: CL in NC > Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 9:00 AM > To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook > > I've been trying to find this info with no luck so far. Does anybody > have a correlation between Orr's Radio Handbook edition number and the > year of print? As far as I know, he did not do them every year like > the ARRL does the Handbook. Looking for one the edition that was > printed in 1953, or was current in 1953. Thanks. > > Charlie, W4MEC in NC From farrerfolks at yahoo.com Sat Oct 3 13:11:41 2015 From: farrerfolks at yahoo.com (Mel Farrer) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 17:11:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook In-Reply-To: <56100A6A.3060907@comcast.net> References: <56100A6A.3060907@comcast.net> Message-ID: <66668290.748470.1443892301921.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Between us, I think we have the 13/14th editions.? What are you looking for Charlie? Mel.K6KBE From: rbethman To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2015 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook Charlie, Jim, and all others, I have the 13th Edition published in 1951.? This may be the elusive one. I also have the 16th, and the 21st. Like most, I don't have them all, but a shotgun number that flows with enough material that covers most anything. Having said that, what are you specifically looking for Charlie? Regards, Bob - N0DGN On 10/3/2015 10:44 AM, w5jo at brightok.net wrote: > Charlie, > > That would be an edition between the 10th (1946) and 15th (1959). > Sorry I can't be more specific but those are the ones I have. > > Maybe someone can fill in the blanks. > > Jim > W5JO > > -----Original Message----- From: CL in NC > Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 9:00 AM > To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook > > I've been trying to find this info with no luck so far. Does anybody > have a correlation between Orr's Radio Handbook edition number and the > year of print?? As far as I know, he did not do them every year like > the ARRL does the Handbook.? Looking for one the edition that was > printed in 1953, or was current in 1953. Thanks. > > Charlie, W4MEC in NC ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to farrerfolks at yahoo.com From dennisgilliam at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 13:27:03 2015 From: dennisgilliam at gmail.com (W7TFO .) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 10:27:03 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Jones-Orr handbook list Message-ID: >From my collection: #1-'35 #2-'36 #3-'37 #4-'38 #5-'39 early #6-'39 late #7-'41 early #8-'41 late #9-'42 #10-'46 #11-'47 large format #12-'49 #13-'51 #14-'56 #15-'59 73 W7TFO Dennis From w5jo at brightok.net Sat Oct 3 13:46:02 2015 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:46:02 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Jones-Orr handbook list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Given this information he is looking for something out of #13 which would be in effect for 1953. Thanks for this information Dennis, this is good to have. So Charlie, as others have said. what can we do for you? Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- >From my collection: #1-'35 #2-'36 #3-'37 #4-'38 #5-'39 early #6-'39 late #7-'41 early #8-'41 late #9-'42 #10-'46 #11-'47 large format #12-'49 #13-'51 #14-'56 #15-'59 73 W7TFO Dennis From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 3 15:55:42 2015 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:55:42 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1443902142.38151.YahooMailBasic@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Appreciate all the input. Looking for the 13th Edition since from the info, the 13the was '51 and the 14th was printed in '56. So, now will start my search again at old booksellers and see if I can find one. Thanks all. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 16:48:24 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 15:48:24 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Orr's Radio Handbook In-Reply-To: <56100A6A.3060907@comcast.net> References: <1443880805.95759.YahooMailBasic@web160605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <75E469FF41574CED8313EC808E4741D9@JimPC> <56100A6A.3060907@comcast.net> Message-ID: The ones before 1960 are getting hard to find because they're the ones with the good stuff in them on tubes and tube circuits and AM/CW. 73 Rob K5UJ From rbethman at comcast.net Sat Oct 3 17:26:52 2015 From: rbethman at comcast.net (rbethman) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 17:26:52 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Any useful reference book In-Reply-To: References: <1443880805.95759.YahooMailBasic@web160605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <75E469FF41574CED8313EC808E4741D9@JimPC> <56100A6A.3060907@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5610481C.1080100@comcast.net> On 10/3/2015 4:48 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > The ones before 1960 are getting hard to find because they're the ones > with the good stuff in them on tubes and tube circuits and AM/CW. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > I am finding that this is very true in any hardback reference book that this community of Amateur Radio Operators would have serious interest in. It is very much like my 1943 Edition of Terman's. It really covers a whole lot on Radio and Electronics. I even keep some older Physics books on the shelf, along side of Mark's Mechanical Engineering, and the one that most of us has used for reference, (Us old folk!), The CRC Reference Manual. Nicknamed the "Rubber Book" since CRC stands for the long gone, I think, Chemical Rubber Company, or is it Corporation. Don't remember any more. It is much easier to go and pull it off the shelf when I need it. I really prefer to keep a real book on hand. I don't have to take a tablet or laptop to where I am going to read, and have to plug that in so I won't have the battery run down. I like to read actual printed text on paper. No annoying use of software to open a document, and making sure I have the correct one installed! I made a pretty decent living being a Computer Science Major. It doesn't mean I desire to take on to the little room down the hall, or out on the deck. Try and save your page with an old fashioned bookmark when it comes to some types of documents! Regards, Bob - N0DGN From farrerfolks at yahoo.com Sat Oct 3 17:48:56 2015 From: farrerfolks at yahoo.com (Mel Farrer) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 21:48:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] books Message-ID: <871622098.50272.1443908936641.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hear hear Bob, I collect any OLD prewar engineering books for the same reason.? They address the reader as a kid from Kansas who has no prior knowledge of the subject.? Great stuff.? Here is short list of my prized books. Radio for Everybody? by Austin C. Lescarboura 1922Radio Telephony for Amateurs by Stuart Ballantine 1922Mechanics Pocket Memoranda by International Correspondence Schools 1900Radio Handbook by Dr. J. H. Dellinger and L. E. Whittemore 1923 And a great many more....... Great sit down reads of the basics. Mel, K6KB From edwmullin at aol.com Sat Oct 3 18:54:02 2015 From: edwmullin at aol.com (edwmullin at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:54:02 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] I got hacked/Spammed In-Reply-To: <20150930013135.23E21149B57A@mailman.qth.net> Message-ID: <1502fe97bdd-5c07-2b59b@webstg-a05.mail.aol.com> To List: Just noticed that a bunch of spam got sent via this email address. Please disregard and delete any links etc. I have taken actions to prevent recurrence. Apologies to the list/Moderators. 73 es GL OM. Ed/KB1HYS From dennisgilliam at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 22:21:41 2015 From: dennisgilliam at gmail.com (W7TFO .) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 19:21:41 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Radio Handbooks Message-ID: eBay, patience, and bit of $ has allowed me to amass all the ARRL and Jones books from #1 to the mid 50's. Not one has come from antique bookstores, and I always look wherever I find myself. 73DG From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 3 23:34:03 2015 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 20:34:03 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Radio handbook evolution? Message-ID: <1443929643.13888.YahooMailBasic@web160606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Ok, again thanks for the input but have found some conflicting info. Could somebody tell me if the 13th edition was credited to Dawley as author and published by Editors and Engineers, and the 14th was the first with William Orr credited as author and published by the same 'Editors and Engineers'. Also, the books name seems to have started as "The Radio Handbook" and then "The" was dropped at some point to just the title of 'Radio Handbook' and the confusion seems to lie between the 13 and 14th editions. Have found a couple 13th and 14th editions, just trying to be sure I am in the same series. Found one in Australia but apparently it costs $45 Australian dollars just to ship it to the States, a bit out of my price range. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 23:46:09 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 22:46:09 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Radio Handbooks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I looked at hamfests for a couple years before I found the Orr Handbook from either '59 or the one before, can't remember which. I have a Radio Handbook, number 7 edition I think, from a hamfest also. Keep your eyes open and don't over look the folks with boxes of books for sale. 73 Rob K5UJ On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:21 PM, W7TFO . wrote: > eBay, patience, and bit of $ has allowed me to amass all the ARRL and Jones > books from #1 to the mid 50's. > > Not one has come from antique bookstores, and I always look wherever I find > myself. From jtml at losalamos.com Sun Oct 4 01:14:32 2015 From: jtml at losalamos.com (John Lyles) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 23:14:32 -0600 Subject: [AMRadio] Radio Handbook listing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5610B5B8.8060604@losalamos.com> Based on the conversations here and my own collection of Handbooks, here is yet another index of handbooks by date and edition. Maybe someone can complete this listing with their collection. I love those old handbooks, and have always kept at least two different periods at work for reference. (along with several ARRL books). 4th 1938 Jones 8th 1941 Dawley, Jones, others 9th 1942 Dawley 10th 1946 Dawley 13th 1951 Dawley 14th 1956 Dawley 15th 1959 Orr 21st 1978 Orr 23rd 1992 Orr 73 John K5PRO From frsahu0003 at embarqmail.com Sun Oct 4 11:58:47 2015 From: frsahu0003 at embarqmail.com (FRANK HUGHES hughes) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 11:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AMRadio] old Orr book - download In-Reply-To: <1170380236.5612927.1443974316410.JavaMail.root@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: <520331928.5613054.1443974327993.JavaMail.root@embarqmail.com> I also look for and collect old ARRL and Orr handbooks. Surprising how clearly the writers of that day speak to me, compared to what passes for writing & editing today. Recently found a free download of Orr 1959 Handbook here: http://n3ujj.com/manuals/THE%20RADIO%20HANDBOOK.pdf Takes a while to complete the download, but faster than trying to find a paper version! 73 Frank KJ4OLL From ars.w5omr at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 13:08:35 2015 From: ars.w5omr at gmail.com (Geoff) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 12:08:35 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] W5KGZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5612AE93.9070704@gmail.com> On 10/01/2015 08:33 AM, w5jo at brightok.net wrote: > Does anyone have any information about Perry? I haven't heard him on > the radio in so long that I can't recall, nor have I seen an email > from him. Lately his email account has been disabled. > > Jim > W5JO I visited with Perry at his house in Bevel Oaks (near Beaumont, TX) 2 or 3 weeks ago. A t-storm took his antenna down for 75m and he's 'in the process' of getting it back up. Perry will be 91 come Jan 07. He's got a couple of BC-610's over there, K5SWK/Otis' old 833x(p-p)833's xmtr as well as WA5BXO/John's 250TH/(813) rig over there. Plenty of iron, just no antenna. 73 = Best Regards, -Geoff/W5OMR (too busy to go help) From k4kyv at charter.net Tue Oct 6 13:58:27 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 12:58:27 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] W5KGZ In-Reply-To: <5612AE93.9070704@gmail.com> References: <5612AE93.9070704@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001101d10060$9a570670$cf051350$@charter.net> I helped John build the modulation reactor for that quad of 813s modulator, out of a pair of identical 12-henry 600 ma filter chokes we salvaged from a retired channel 11 TV transmitter. We were able to get a little over 30 henries by discarding the "I" laminations and butting together and clamping the "E" laminations, leaving a gap between the core sections and wiring the two windings in series, phased properly so that the inductances were additive. After I left the Houston area, John had a flood and that whole rig washed down a creek and was under water for several weeks. When it eventually re-surfaced, John reclaimed it, dried everything out, and got it on the air again. He said the original modulation transformer and the reactor we constructed still worked after they were thoroughly dried. Don k4kyv -----Original Message----- From: amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Geoff He's got a couple of BC-610's over there, K5SWK/Otis' old 833x(p-p)833's xmtr as well as WA5BXO/John's 250TH/(813) rig over there. Plenty of iron, just no antenna. 73 = Best Regards, -Geoff/W5OMR --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 6 21:20:17 2015 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:20:17 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Handbook find Message-ID: <1444180817.24124.YahooMailBasic@web160606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Thanks to all who commented on the Radio Handbook. I appreciate that partial list of editions and authors too. A member on this list kindly offered to part with one in his collection at a very reasonable price, so I'm a happy camper. On a sadder note. My Heathkit Seneca died on the local 6 meter AM net tonight. Don't mind repairing it, but have to get it down from the top of the stack of gear. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From k4kyv at charter.net Thu Oct 8 17:00:45 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 16:00:45 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power Message-ID: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> Posted on another mailing list: >> It runs 400W of >> carrier and 1500W PEP. > > I wish AM operators would quit expressing power in terms of PEP This brings up what I agree is a disturbing trend, that AMers are increasingly referring to their transmitter power in terms of PEP, regardless of whether or not they are talking about "legal limit" or running anywhere near it. I'm wholeheartedly in agreement with the person who posted that message. While that's OK for SSB, when discussing how much power your AM transmitter is running, the base figure has always been CARRIER power. When describing one's audio peaks, the experienced AM operator will speak in terms of MODULATION PERCENTAGE. That's how professional engineers talk about it. You don't hear WSM announce "200,000 watts clear channel 650". It sounds totally lame to hear someone say over the air that his DX-100 is running "400 watts" or to call the Valiant a "400 watt" transmitter. AM PEP should be reserved for discussions directly referring to the legal limit , not how much power you run with your Ranger, DX-60, T-368 or plastic radio in AM mode. Many of us don't even own a PEP meter in the first place. A PEP meter or even a broadcast type modulation monitor, if it lacks a graphic display of the envelope waveform, is no substitute for a monitor scope. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From qedconsultants at embarqmail.com Thu Oct 8 18:33:13 2015 From: qedconsultants at embarqmail.com (Bernie Doran) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:33:13 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] cyclic noise Message-ID: <5616EF29.3010905@embarqmail.com> I asked a few weeks ago if anyone has noticed the cyclic noise that I am hearing. It appears to be continuous from about 2MC to above 15 MC usually runs about 6db increase on 40 and the same on 20, lower on 160 and 80, However sometimes 40 or 20 will be 12 db. Nothing close to me to do this nearest home is 1/4 mi. yesterday it stopped at exactly 3:45 PM EDT. any day of the week and just about any time. it would take enormous power to cover this freq range. The repetition rate seems to be a bit faster that 1 CPS. I am suspecting that this is scatter with occasional sky wave that causes the big increase on one band. The only thing that has this sort of power is HARP and they reportedly do operate from 2 MC to 18 MC at 350 Meg watts. I saw one report from a ham 5000 mi away and they pegged his s meter in mid day at about 3.3 MC. I can watch the s meter slid up and down, background noise here is about S4 on 40 daytime, and turning of the AGC it is easy to hear the rise and fall. I probably am 6500 mi away from HARP( mid Ohio) Would be interesting to look at the actual noise wave form and see if it might have some info in it. Why do I care? Simply because it is there, and man made, and I wonder what it s. Bernie W8RPW From bguyger at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 18:41:59 2015 From: bguyger at yahoo.com (Bill Guyger) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:41:59 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] cyclic noise In-Reply-To: <5616EF29.3010905@embarqmail.com> References: <5616EF29.3010905@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: <1D1CC772-37F5-4DE9-9BB5-5AB6EE7C8F04@yahoo.com> FWIW Harp is dead. Air Force started dismantling the site and University of Alaska said hold the phone we'd like the gear. I think some form of deal was struck but a lot of the gear is already gone. Bill AD5OOL Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 8, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Bernie Doran wrote: > > I asked a few weeks ago if anyone has noticed the cyclic noise that I am hearing. It appears to be continuous from about 2MC to above 15 MC > > usually runs about 6db increase on 40 and the same on 20, lower on 160 and 80, However sometimes 40 or 20 will be 12 db. Nothing close to me to do this nearest home is 1/4 mi. yesterday it stopped at exactly 3:45 PM EDT. any day of the week and just about any time. it would take enormous power to cover this freq range. The repetition rate seems to be a bit faster that 1 CPS. I am suspecting that this is scatter with occasional sky wave that causes the big increase on one band. The only thing that has this sort of power is HARP and they reportedly do operate from 2 MC to 18 MC at 350 Meg watts. I saw one report from a ham 5000 mi away and they pegged his s meter in mid day at about 3.3 MC. I can watch the s meter slid up and down, background noise here is about S4 on 40 daytime, and turning of the AGC it is easy to hear the rise and fall. I probably am 6500 mi away from HARP( mid Ohio) Would be interesting to look at the actual noise wave form and see if it might have some info in it. Why do I care? Simply because it is there, and man made, and I wonder what it s. > > Bernie W8RPW > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com From james.liles at comcast.net Thu Oct 8 18:49:41 2015 From: james.liles at comcast.net (james.liles at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:49:41 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] cyclic noise In-Reply-To: <5616EF29.3010905@embarqmail.com> References: <5616EF29.3010905@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: <5BB4A24CE6734A39819E2E14487A3F86@LILESJLAPTOP> Hi Bernie, I have a neighbor that had a plasma TV that raised the devil on 40. Captured the rubbish with an HP 8568B in max hold mode. It sweeps from 7050Kc to 8200Kc. Found it with a portable shortwave radio. Bothered me for a few years and disappeared when I saw it on the curb. Kindest regards Jim K9AXN -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Doran Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 5:33 PM To: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net Subject: [AMRadio] cyclic noise I asked a few weeks ago if anyone has noticed the cyclic noise that I am hearing. It appears to be continuous from about 2MC to above 15 MC usually runs about 6db increase on 40 and the same on 20, lower on 160 and 80, However sometimes 40 or 20 will be 12 db. Nothing close to me to do this nearest home is 1/4 mi. yesterday it stopped at exactly 3:45 PM EDT. any day of the week and just about any time. it would take enormous power to cover this freq range. The repetition rate seems to be a bit faster that 1 CPS. I am suspecting that this is scatter with occasional sky wave that causes the big increase on one band. The only thing that has this sort of power is HARP and they reportedly do operate from 2 MC to 18 MC at 350 Meg watts. I saw one report from a ham 5000 mi away and they pegged his s meter in mid day at about 3.3 MC. I can watch the s meter slid up and down, background noise here is about S4 on 40 daytime, and turning of the AGC it is easy to hear the rise and fall. I probably am 6500 mi away from HARP( mid Ohio) Would be interesting to look at the actual noise wave form and see if it might have some info in it. Why do I care? Simply because it is there, and man made, and I wonder what it s. Bernie W8RPW ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to james.liles at comcast.net From w5jo at brightok.net Thu Oct 8 18:56:12 2015 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:56:12 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] cyclic noise In-Reply-To: <5616EF29.3010905@embarqmail.com> References: <5616EF29.3010905@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: <4ED2E480D9AA485CBA44FE658E3CA707@JimPC> I have been fighting line noise for longer than I care to count (about 2 years) and have been tuning from 1.8 to 29 megacycles. I have not heard what your describe Bernie. I tune on the higher HF bands and listen for noise from power lines the rotate my beam to find direction and do that from mid-morning to late afternoon. I have yet to hear what your describe so I am thinking it may be something close to you. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- I asked a few weeks ago if anyone has noticed the cyclic noise that I am hearing. It appears to be continuous from about 2MC to above 15 MC usually runs about 6db increase on 40 and the same on 20, lower on 160 and 80, However sometimes 40 or 20 will be 12 db. Nothing close to me to do this nearest home is 1/4 mi. yesterday it stopped at exactly 3:45 PM EDT. any day of the week and just about any time. it would take enormous power to cover this freq range. The repetition rate seems to be a bit faster that 1 CPS. I am suspecting that this is scatter with occasional sky wave that causes the big increase on one band. Bernie W8RPW Message delivered to w5jo at brightok.net From cozy659 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 18:57:34 2015 From: cozy659 at yahoo.com (Neal Newman) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 22:57:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> Message-ID: <1189618816.1154739.1444345055007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?Not Sure about Carrier Level ?I base my AM power on Base current... Typically 4 amps for 1kw carrier depending on Antenna Impedance. I have a 1 kw station thats running 2.53 amps50kw is about 32.45 amps... ?Today I was ?working on the 50Kw. and noticed a Floating Ground strap near the tower Base.... good thing I did Not lean ?into it. that strap had 25 amps across it.... New Project.. braze a new strap.... explains why the 20 feet of tower below the insulator was HOT HOT HOT... Neal Ka2caf On Thursday, October 8, 2015 5:01 PM, Donald Chester wrote: Posted on another mailing list: >> It runs? 400W of >> carrier and 1500W PEP. > >? I wish AM operators would quit expressing power in terms of PEP This brings up what I agree is a disturbing trend, that AMers are increasingly referring to their transmitter power in terms of PEP, regardless of whether or not they are talking about "legal? limit" or running anywhere near it.? I'm wholeheartedly in agreement with the person who posted that message.? While that's OK for SSB, when discussing how much power your AM transmitter is running, the base figure has always been CARRIER power.? When describing one's audio peaks, the experienced AM operator will speak in terms of MODULATION PERCENTAGE.? That's how professional engineers talk about it.? You don't hear WSM announce "200,000 watts clear channel 650".? It sounds totally lame to hear someone say over the air that his DX-100 is running "400 watts" or to call the Valiant a "400 watt" transmitter. AM PEP should be reserved for discussions directly referring to the legal limit , not how much power you run with your Ranger, DX-60, T-368 or plastic radio in AM mode. Many of us don't even own a PEP meter in the first place.? A PEP meter or even a broadcast type modulation monitor, if it lacks a graphic display of the envelope waveform, is no substitute for a monitor scope. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to cozy659 at yahoo.com From b.gaz at comcast.net Thu Oct 8 19:33:24 2015 From: b.gaz at comcast.net (b.gaz at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 23:33:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> Message-ID: <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> I almost always say how much carrier power AND pep power I am running. Is that ok? I for one like to know what frequency I am on, how much power and modulation I have, and how wide my signal is. I know some people just talk into whatever vintage radio they have, but if you operate much I think its a good idea to know more about your signal then the plate current reading on the transmitter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Chester" To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 5:00:45 PM Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power Posted on another mailing list: >> It runs 400W of >> carrier and 1500W PEP. > > I wish AM operators would quit expressing power in terms of PEP This brings up what I agree is a disturbing trend, that AMers are increasingly referring to their transmitter power in terms of PEP, regardless of whether or not they are talking about "legal limit" or running anywhere near it. I'm wholeheartedly in agreement with the person who posted that message. While that's OK for SSB, when discussing how much power your AM transmitter is running, the base figure has always been CARRIER power. When describing one's audio peaks, the experienced AM operator will speak in terms of MODULATION PERCENTAGE. That's how professional engineers talk about it. You don't hear WSM announce "200,000 watts clear channel 650". It sounds totally lame to hear someone say over the air that his DX-100 is running "400 watts" or to call the Valiant a "400 watt" transmitter. AM PEP should be reserved for discussions directly referring to the legal limit , not how much power you run with your Ranger, DX-60, T-368 or plastic radio in AM mode. Many of us don't even own a PEP meter in the first place. A PEP meter or even a broadcast type modulation monitor, if it lacks a graphic display of the envelope waveform, is no substitute for a monitor scope. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to b.gaz at comcast.net From k4kyv at charter.net Thu Oct 8 20:52:52 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 19:52:52 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> From: amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of b.gaz at comcast.net Subject: Re: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power > I almost always say how much carrier power AND pep power I am running. > Is that ok? That's exactly what we were talking about. What's wrong with just stating carrier power? Adding the PEP leaves the impression of a phony operator. If you know your carrier power, and you are fully modulating the transmitter, that already defines PEP, so it's redundant to make it a point state the numbers. I suspect that when seasoned AMers hear this, it shouts "newbie!!". That PEP business when routinely stating your power level is something I have been hearing in AM conversations only for the past couple of years. OTOH, it could be legitimate to discuss PEP if, for example, you want to re-assure everyone in the QSO that you are running near but not over the limit, so you tell them your PEP meter is swinging up to the vicinity of 1490 and occasionally hits 1500. But what's the point in expounding on PEP with a Viking II or homebrew 250-watt transmitter? If it isn't quite capable of fully modulating the carrier, just say it only modulates up to 70% or whatever the maximum percentage of modulation is that you can squeeze out of it. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From b.gaz at comcast.net Thu Oct 8 23:02:06 2015 From: b.gaz at comcast.net (b.gaz at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 03:02:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> Message-ID: <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> ? Well, I am kind of new at this. I have various rigs, and some do much more peak power then others. If I can get 4 times the carrier power, things are working well. I have had rigs that would not do more then 3 times carrier power if that. Before making some changes, my 32V3 would only do 2 times carrier. So, for me, carrier power tells me almost nothing, while both tells me a lot. Not enough people pay attention to PEP, if they did maybe there would be fewer 40% modulated signals on the band. Maybe they would find out the transmitter is not working right if they had very little peak power. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Chester" To: "b gaz" , amradio at mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 8:52:52 PM Subject: RE: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power From: amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of b.gaz at comcast.net Subject: Re: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power > I almost always say how much carrier power AND pep power I am running. > Is that ok? That's exactly what we were talking about. What's wrong with just stating carrier power? Adding the PEP leaves the impression of a phony operator. If you know your carrier power, and you are fully modulating the transmitter, that already defines PEP, so it's redundant to make it a point state the numbers. I suspect that when seasoned AMers hear this, it shouts "newbie!!". That PEP business when routinely stating your power level is something I have been hearing in AM conversations only for the past couple of years. OTOH, it could be legitimate to discuss PEP if, for example, you want to re-assure everyone in the QSO that you are running near but not over the limit, so you tell them your PEP meter is swinging up to the vicinity of 1490 and occasionally hits 1500. But what's the point in expounding on PEP with a Viking II or homebrew 250-watt transmitter? If it isn't quite capable of fully modulating the carrier, just say it only modulates up to 70% or whatever the maximum percentage of modulation is that you can squeeze out of it. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jc at pctechref.com Fri Oct 9 11:12:32 2015 From: jc at pctechref.com (John Coleman) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:12:32 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000901d102a4$ec3b5ae0$c4b210a0$@pctechref.com> I'll make a statement on PEP vs Carrier: Sine wave audio modution at 100% --- PEP = 4 X Carrier But if the audio is not sine wave, then the polarity of the modulation, with respect to the power supply that it is modulating, will determine the ratio of the PEP to CARRIER. making the assumption that 100% modulationis defined as = carrier pinch off, then it is quite posible to have a 1000 watt carrier and 1500 watt PEP output. Reversing the non sine wave modulation polarity might send the PEP to as high as 4000 Watts. To get legal, with this senario one might need to reduce the carrier to 200 Watts The interesting thing about this is, that with the 1000 watt carrier or the 200 watt carrier, the side band energy might be the same as long as the Peak to Peak audio voltage is not changed. So if your not using an osiliscope to monitor your signal then you really have no idea. the following two links may clear up what I am trying to say. note the fianal and the modulator have separate supplies and the final supply is on a variac. Same audio voltage from the modulator in either case. Same audio output level. Less plate voltage on the final in image008 Audio modulation 180 deg phase change. (mod XFMR plate caps reversed) http://www.qsl.net/wa5bxo/asyam/image006.JPG http://www.qsl.net/wa5bxo/asyam/image008.JPG The fig image008 Produces much less RF current to the dummy load or antenna. but has the exact same PEP and sideband energy. Thanks for reading John, WA5BXO From ssaw at mchsi.com Fri Oct 9 16:20:38 2015 From: ssaw at mchsi.com (ssaw at mchsi.com) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AMRadio] R-178 In-Reply-To: <1728351063.48042170.1444421658001.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <586003907.48059778.1444422038741.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com> Does anyone have any info or know anything about a Signal Corp HF radio with the designation R-178/URM3? I think it has a 1952 contract number. I can't find anything. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks es 73 Wayne N0TE From b.gaz at comcast.net Fri Oct 9 21:01:14 2015 From: b.gaz at comcast.net (b.gaz at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 01:01:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> Message-ID: <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> I have and use a scope off the receiver IF, a mod monitor with positive and negative readings, a pep watt meter, and an sdr spectrum display. As a quick reference, I look at the negative modulation percentage on the mod monitor and the PEP reading on the watt meter. I look at others modulation on the scope more then my own since the mod monitor is much easier to read. I think most radio stations used mod monitors, not scopes... I do not have any sort of hang up about carrier or PEP power, I find both interesting and useful. Maybe some have a problem with PEP because of the power rules, or its association with ssb. I have no problem with ssb myself, but never found anything interesting to listen to on that mode. From ars.w5omr at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 05:49:09 2015 From: ars.w5omr at gmail.com (Geoff) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 04:49:09 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> On 10/09/2015 08:01 PM, b.gaz at comcast.net wrote: > I have and use a scope off the receiver IF, The problem with that is, the IF gets saturated and the AGC of the receiver doesn't respond accurately. Let's say you're running a transmitter like John/WA5BXO built up, that has enough audio power in the modulator to properly modulate his carrier with his peak'ed asymmetrical voice. If you try to monitor that signal in the IF of a receiver, you'll never see the positive peaks of the signal, until you turn off the AGC and reduce the RF Gain to the point where the signal is not overloading the front end of the receiver. Best thing to do for a monitor scope is to take some small coax and feed it into the scope's BNC or banana-jack input, and run the other end outside near the antenna. 5 or 6 turns and a couple of inches diameter (nothing is exact) of some stiff copper wire connected to the coax and supported somewhere will give a much truer reading of what your transmitter is producing. Monitor transmitted signals, not those that are passed through multiple stages in a receiver. > and an sdr spectrum display. Now, that's something I'd like to get into, as well. The spectrum display on an SDR device. SDR intrigues me. I've played with a couple of on-line SDR receivers and seeing the actual bandwidth of some stations is amazing. Having a receiver with no other noise and only monitoring the transmitted audio would tell a lot about some other components of the transmitted signal. 73 = Best Regards, -Geoff/W5OMR From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 06:14:18 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 05:14:18 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> Message-ID: About the only thing that would be nice about SDR is the fish finder. But for me the cons outweigh the pros: Have to have a computer. Have to "boot up" the rig Forget fixing anything if it breaks. Throw away the PC card or maybe the whole thing and get another one. Or "send it in to the shop." Whenever I hear a ham say "The rig is out for repairs" I think how sad. I am trying to not be one of those type hams. Does anyone really know how one of those rigs works? Can I point to a cap or resistor and ask what is that there for and get an answer? Is there a schematic even? The cost. $3500 !!! at least for that Anan thing, a little box with an on/off switch. Does anyone think that 3500 dollar rig will be running in 40 years? I guess it doesn't matter for me because I'll be SK most likely but 3500 can buy some nice antenna improvements that won't go out of date. I work some piss weak guys with SDRs and I wish they had spent the money on a higher antenna, hi. And the software fee. If you get a Flex Radio you have to pay a regular maintenance fee. What do they think this is, the iPhone (which I think is also for suckers). The whole thing with computers and software is a red alert. How long before an OS update, or a new driver, or some other issue comes up and the user is plunged into incompatibility hell looking for dependencies or decoding gibberish from some computer geek because the rig won't work. Or the computer craps out and has to be replaced. I just want to fire everything up and have a QSO. For now having a nice spectrum display isn't worth the hassle, time and cost. 73 Rob K5UJ On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Geoff wrote: > > > SDR intrigues me. I've played with a couple of on-line SDR receivers > and seeing the actual bandwidth of some stations is amazing. Having a > receiver with no other noise and only monitoring the transmitted audio > would tell a lot about some other components of the transmitted signal. From ars.w5omr at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 09:09:24 2015 From: ars.w5omr at gmail.com (Geoff) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 08:09:24 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56190E04.9000701@gmail.com> On 10/10/2015 05:14 AM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > About the only thing that would be nice about SDR is the fish finder. I'm only talking about a receiver ... perhaps to use as a monitor for the AM rig. No, I'm not giving up my tubes for transmitting, unless it's one of the 'plastic' radios. They're desireable now, because there is a 2 year old, a 10 year old and an 11 year old in the house, and nightmares of little fingers pointing to (and more-than-likely not) touching the 3kVDC line have had me waking up in cold-sweat nightmares already, more than twice. As of this particular moment, my p-p 250TH x p-p 250TH rig is in storage. I've got a TS-2000 and a Swan Mark II 3-500Z amp that does fairly decent on AM at around 150w of carrier and near 100% modulation. > SDR intrigues me. I've played with a couple of on-line SDR receivers > and seeing the actual bandwidth of some stations is amazing. Having a > receiver with no other noise and only monitoring the transmitted audio > would tell a lot about some other components of the transmitted signal. From rbethman at comcast.net Sat Oct 10 09:19:06 2015 From: rbethman at comcast.net (rbethman) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:19:06 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR In-Reply-To: References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> The SDR does not have to cost anywhere remotely close to $3500! A RaspberryPi runs around $65, the Dongle runs from $8 to $14. The SRD# software is just plain free. The other part is sold through Hayseed Hamfest, it is the RANverter. It costs $45.90 The whopping total of $125. The RANverter is a kit, and there are NO surface Mount Components whatsoever! RaspberryPI is its own computer, uses the ARM7 processor, the very same one in Android phones, it is a quad core, it is just a hair bigger than a pack of cigarettes. It has a CATV jack, 4 USB ports, HDMI for monitors, or you can convert it to analog in lieu of digital video output. The cores run at 900MHz. Those folks that go out and spend $3500 are insane! Get into contact with W9RAN, Robert Nickels. He can go through the entire setup with you. He has been working with the man that writes the software. So Robert is well up on the entire setup. I've been playing around with it for around 6 or so months. Regards, Bob - N0DGN On 10/10/2015 6:14 AM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > About the only thing that would be nice about SDR is the fish finder. > > But for me the cons outweigh the pros: > > Have to have a computer. > Have to "boot up" the rig > Forget fixing anything if it breaks. Throw away the PC card or maybe > the whole thing and get another one. Or "send it in to the shop." > > Whenever I hear a ham say "The rig is out for repairs" I think how > sad. I am trying to not be one of those type hams. > > Does anyone really know how one of those rigs works? Can I point to a > cap or resistor and ask what is that there for and get an answer? Is > there a schematic even? > > The cost. $3500 !!! at least for that Anan thing, a little box with > an on/off switch. Does anyone think that 3500 dollar rig will be > running in 40 years? I guess it doesn't matter for me because I'll be > SK most likely but 3500 can buy some nice antenna improvements that > won't go out of date. I work some piss weak guys with SDRs and I wish > they had spent the money on a higher antenna, hi. > > And the software fee. If you get a Flex Radio you have to pay a > regular maintenance fee. What do they think this is, the iPhone > (which I think is also for suckers). > > The whole thing with computers and software is a red alert. How long > before an OS update, or a new driver, or some other issue comes up and > the user is plunged into incompatibility hell looking for dependencies > or decoding gibberish from some computer geek because the rig won't > work. Or the computer craps out and has to be replaced. I just want > to fire everything up and have a QSO. For now having a nice spectrum > display isn't worth the hassle, time and cost. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > > > > On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Geoff wrote: >> >> SDR intrigues me. I've played with a couple of on-line SDR receivers >> and seeing the actual bandwidth of some stations is amazing. Having a >> receiver with no other noise and only monitoring the transmitted audio >> would tell a lot about some other components of the transmitted signal. From ne1s at securespeed.us Sat Oct 10 09:41:12 2015 From: ne1s at securespeed.us (Larry Szendrei) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:41:12 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56191578.4090905@securespeed.us> On 10/10/15 6:14 AM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > About the only thing that would be nice about SDR is the fish finder. There's other advantages as well, such as continuously variable receive bandwidth. So you can set the bandwidth so that the interfering signal is just outside of the bandpass, and enjoy the maximum possible bandwidth up to that point. Of course, like any other receiver you can place the bandpass asymmetrically around the carrier to best eliminate adjacent channel interference. In a lot of the software you also have a synchronous AM detector option. > > But for me the cons outweigh the pros: > > Have to have a computer. > Have to "boot up" the rig > Forget fixing anything if it breaks. Throw away the PC card or maybe > the whole thing and get another one. Or "send it in to the shop." Not going to argue with that. > > Whenever I hear a ham say "The rig is out for repairs" I think how > sad. I am trying to not be one of those type hams. Me, too! > > Does anyone really know how one of those rigs works? Can I point to a > cap or resistor and ask what is that there for and get an answer? Is > there a schematic even? Some of the SDR receivers, like the Softrocks, are really quite simple in concept, at least as far as that particular hardware is concerned, up to the computer sound card input jack. Of course, if you insist on understanding how the computer hardware and software work to any detail, that's another matter. > > The cost. $3500 !!! at least for that Anan thing, a little box with > an on/off switch. Does anyone think that 3500 dollar rig will be > running in 40 years? I guess it doesn't matter for me because I'll be > SK most likely but 3500 can buy some nice antenna improvements that > won't go out of date. I work some piss weak guys with SDRs and I wish > they had spent the money on a higher antenna, hi. The Softrock kits are very reasonable. My first one was the simplest/cheapest one, built for a "single frequency" of 455KHz. I hooked it up to my SX-28 1st IF can through a JFET source follower, and if you operate the SX-28 in the widest selectivity position you can see about 20KHz of spectrum around the frequency to which the SX-28 is tuned. It cost less than $30 delivered to my door. And it gives me the choice of envelope or synchronous detectors for AM, and excellent SSB and CW detectors. Or you can just use your SX-28 (or other favorite receiver) in it's entirety for receiving, and use the SDR just for the spectrum display, if you wish. I recently completed the Softrock Ensemble II receiver kit, which gives you a general coverage receiver from 1.8 - 30 MHz, with an antenna input so no other hardware is needed besides it, the computer, and antenna. This one cost me less than $70 including shipping, and it also works extremely well. I have a transceiver kit waiting to complete that was given to me, partially assembled, but since it only will put out around 2W PEP, it will require a couple stages of "shoes." None will ever replace all the homebrew and classic gear at NE1S, but it's all really fun to play with. This stuff is considered "old" technology now, though.The present trend is to "suck in" huge swaths of spectrum, digitize it all with a very fast DAC, and then have a powerful computer process it all. But that's pretty expensive, and for what most of us are interested in, seems unnecessary and wasteful. > > And the software fee. If you get a Flex Radio you have to pay a > regular maintenance fee. What do they think this is, the iPhone > (which I think is also for suckers). Can't speak to the Flexes, but all the SDR software I've used (I've played with 4 different programs) has been free. > > The whole thing with computers and software is a red alert. How long > before an OS update, or a new driver, or some other issue comes up and > the user is plunged into incompatibility hell looking for dependencies > or decoding gibberish from some computer geek because the rig won't > work. Or the computer craps out and has to be replaced. I just want > to fire everything up and have a QSO. For now having a nice spectrum > display isn't worth the hassle, time and cost. Yeah, but if you're going to use a computer anyway for non-ham stuff you'll eventually be dealing with that regardless, 73, -Larry/NE1S ...who is not connected with the Softrock folks in any way except for being a (very) satisfied customer. From ka1kaq at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 10:09:43 2015 From: ka1kaq at gmail.com (Todd, KA1KAQ) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:09:43 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <56191578.4090905@securespeed.us> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <56191578.4090905@securespeed.us> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Larry Szendrei wrote: Yeah, but if you're going to use a computer anyway for non-ham stuff you'll > eventually be dealing with that regardless, > Exactly. No one can see inside your station except you. And it's not like we're not already using computer technology for other radio-related things like......this. Reminds me of a very vocal mid-Atlantic AMer a few years back who preached that computers didn't belong in a 'classic' station or whatever, swore he would *never* have one in his station, etc etc. Then once day the secret got out. Someone visited or he let slip on the air that he had a laptop in his station that he used for recording and playback of audio and other things. Huh. (o: As to the SoftRock approach you mentioned Larry, I recall a writeup on 'fone a several years ago done by Gary/W2INR about the SoftRock kit made for the R-390A receiver and probably others. Basically it gave you the benefits of the display while still using your old tube receiver. The best of both worlds. I still need to track down one of those kits. Interesting that you used something similar or maybe the same kit on your SX28. That must provide quite a display - panadaptor deluxe! ~ Todd, KA1KAQ/4 From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 12:07:27 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:07:27 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR In-Reply-To: <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> Message-ID: Bob, Okay so it isn't expensive. what about the rest. Can you fix it when it breaks? How does it work? Do you get a schematic? Do you think it will last 20 years? Sorry but my experience with free software is you get what you pay for. When it comes to computer stuff for radio, I have a pretty short amount of patience because my radio time is for radio and not computer. I'll give a problem maybe 10 minutes and if it doesn't work it goes into the garbage or back for a refund. Life's too short for QRP and flaky gadgets. Larry, Thanks for your information. I remember the SoftRock things. I think a guy in Indiana made them, but he never had any in stock. He must have made them annually in batches of 10 at a time and they were bought up immediately. Never got my hands on one. In a way, I think SDR makes sense maybe for slopbucket and digital modes, but since AM and CW are the two legacy transmission modes that lend themselves so readily to vintage gear, it is hard for me to understand the need to computerize it. Actually CW even more so. Here is a mode that involves simple keying of a class C RF final to make radiotelegraph code characters and folks want to use a digital computer rig to do that. Seems like a lot of unnecessary complication. 73 Rob K5UJ On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 8:19 AM, rbethman wrote: > The SDR does not have to cost anywhere remotely close to $3500! From rbethman at comcast.net Sat Oct 10 12:29:05 2015 From: rbethman at comcast.net (rbethman) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:29:05 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR In-Reply-To: References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> Can I fix it? Yes! Why? I've taken the time to get into the entire realm of Surface Mount Technology! I've been building circuits with them. I've been repairing them. The RaspberryPI DOES have a schematic out there. Didn't cost a single cent! A Nay sayer in this technology is one that either doesn't want to learn, or can't learn from my experience. It is no different than the current arena of Drones or UAVs if you wish. I have one of them also. The control system runs at 5.8GHz. The Camera feed back to the controller that provides FPV, (First Person View), runs at 2.5GHz. It looks the same inside as a Kenwood TS-2000. We have been building better antennas for the 5.8GHz. I can repair and troubleshoot it also. Guess I'm not staying stuck in old tired equipment. I'll keep learning and moving with the new. The next step is mounting a qrp rig under the UAV and making contacts, CW or AM from up to 400 feet above ground. Then tell me how unworkable this is. Regards, Bob - N0DGN On 10/10/2015 12:07 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > Bob, > > Okay so it isn't expensive. what about the rest. Can you fix it when > it breaks? How does it work? Do you get a schematic? Do you think > it will last 20 years? Sorry but my experience with free software is > you get what you pay for. When it comes to computer stuff for radio, > I have a pretty short amount of patience because my radio time is for > radio and not computer. I'll give a problem maybe 10 minutes and if > it doesn't work it goes into the garbage or back for a refund. Life's > too short for QRP and flaky gadgets. > > From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 10 13:14:13 2015 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:14:13 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Economic hippy Message-ID: <1444497253.8931.YahooMailBasic@web160603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Commenting on comments about SDR's and rig prices. When I was a kid in the 60's, my ham rig was a regen receiver and a one tube CW transmitter. When I graduated up to a Heathkit HR10/DX60, paid for it on installments at $16 a month, made by cutting grass, that was a big expense. When I was making $6000 a year, a Collins or a Drake seemed very expensive, By the time I retired making a lot more than that 500 a month, a thousand dollars for a radio still seems astronomical to me. Now they have gear that costs upwards of $15K, and SDR's that run $6K. A 100 watt 'entry level' transceiver is around $1K. It all seems overpriced to me. I know, some will say that when I made 500 a month and a Drake TR4 was $595, factor in inflation over the years and a modern rig still costs the equivalent of 1 months salary or more. To me, a thousand bucks is a thousand bucks no matter what era. Not wanting to go into debt for that sort of thing puts me in the economic hippy category according to a finance guy who thought trying to be debt free was not the modern way. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From manualman at juno.com Sat Oct 10 14:40:35 2015 From: manualman at juno.com (manualman at juno.com) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 14:40:35 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] SDR AM Message-ID: Incorrect. There is no regular maintenance fee. For the legacy Flex Radio equipment, schematics and/or service manuals are available for most of their products. Typically on the used market, Flex 5000's generally come in anywhere from $1400 to $2000 depending on additional options. Flex 3000 transceiver generally goes for $1000 to about $1300. Flex 1500 transceiver goes for around $650 new, about $350 to $450 used. Pete, wa2cwa On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 05:14:18 -0500 Rob Atkinson writes: > > And the software fee. If you get a Flex Radio you have to pay a > regular maintenance fee. What do they think this is, the iPhone > (which I think is also for suckers). > > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ From k4kyv at charter.net Sat Oct 10 16:01:19 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 15:01:19 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] In Defence of Old Buzzard Transmissions Message-ID: <000e01d10396$6e59c650$4b0d52f0$@charter.net> Some people like short, quick exchanges, while others prefer the round-table type of QSO. In roundtables the transmissions can get lengthy, so it can be difficult to maintain the thread of a conversation, particularly with more than a couple of stations in the QSO. To me, it depends. If I just want to rag chew with no urgent topic at hand, the round-table is fine, but when discussing a specific topic that requires exchanging pertinent information with another person, such as instructions on how to do something, the quick-exchange works better. In any case, I prefer to keep the group small, 3 or 4 participants, maximum. "When the group grows to four, that's the time to hit the door"... time to branch off to another frequency and start a new QSO, thus increasing AM presence in the band. Something I find particularly annoying, however, is for someone to break into a QSO, knowing their signal is piss-weak, and then proceed to make a filibuster transmission... "The weaker they are, the longer they talk." Some of us have been repeatedly admonished for making excessively long transmissions. However, there is one situation where the old-buzzard transmission is the way to go, and I don't mind four or more others in the QSO (as long as everyone in the group is delivering a readable signal to everyone else). When band conditions are good and everyone in the group has solid copy, I like to carry on a casual conversation while working on a project at the bench, or as the other night, doing some household chore like snapping green beans, something that occupies both hands, without demanding full undivided mental effort while working. That way, one can get in some useful bench time between transmissions, and when it's one's time to transmit, that provides a pleasant break from tasks like soldering and wiring up a circuit, digging for something in the junk box, or drilling, filing, sawing and other metal work. It's very difficult to do those tasks while carrying on a quick-exchange type of QSO. OTOH, this seldom works with problem-solving tasks like studying a schematic or trying to troubleshoot a malfunction. You can usually tell that's what I'm doing, when someone turns it over to me, and it takes 15 seconds or more before I start transmitting. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 18:21:12 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:21:12 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] SDR AM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I stand corrected. FlexRadio backed off from that and I didn't know about it. Instead, you have to pay for any major software upgrade, similar to what Microsoft does with Windows but you can keep using your current version of software as long as you want (however I imagine in 15 years they won't want to keep supporting it but who knows--by then your computer will probably have to have a new OS etc. anyway and it won't be backward compatible with old applications). https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/when_does_the_payment_for_upgrades_for_software_start_again However, it is still a PC/Software based rig and as such, is subject to hard drive crapouts, viruses, malware, etc. if on a network, a continual stream of bug fixes for this and that, and so on. I have enough complexity in my life as it is and am not looking for more. 73 Rob K5UJ On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 1:40 PM, wrote: > Incorrect. There is no regular maintenance fee. > > For the legacy Flex Radio equipment, schematics and/or service manuals > are available for most of their products. Typically on the used market, > Flex 5000's generally come in anywhere from $1400 to $2000 depending on > additional options. Flex 3000 transceiver generally goes for $1000 to > about $1300. Flex 1500 transceiver goes for around $650 new, about $350 > to $450 used. > > Pete, wa2cwa From JM at D8ALUS.NET Sat Oct 10 18:39:26 2015 From: JM at D8ALUS.NET (Jack) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:39:26 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] SDR AM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <011001d103ac$84bc82a0$8e3587e0$@D8ALUS.NET> Rather a Luddite view, IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rob Atkinson Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 6:21 PM To: manualman Cc: Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service Subject: Re: [AMRadio] SDR AM I stand corrected. FlexRadio backed off from that and I didn't know about it. Instead, you have to pay for any major software upgrade, similar to what Microsoft does with Windows but you can keep using your current version of software as long as you want (however I imagine in 15 years they won't want to keep supporting it but who knows--by then your computer will probably have to have a new OS etc. anyway and it won't be backward compatible with old applications). https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/when_does_the_payment_for_upgrades_for_software_start_again However, it is still a PC/Software based rig and as such, is subject to hard drive crapouts, viruses, malware, etc. if on a network, a continual stream of bug fixes for this and that, and so on. I have enough complexity in my life as it is and am not looking for more. 73 Rob K5UJ On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 1:40 PM, wrote: > Incorrect. There is no regular maintenance fee. > > For the legacy Flex Radio equipment, schematics and/or service manuals > are available for most of their products. Typically on the used > market, Flex 5000's generally come in anywhere from $1400 to $2000 > depending on additional options. Flex 3000 transceiver generally goes > for $1000 to about $1300. Flex 1500 transceiver goes for around $650 > new, about $350 to $450 used. > > Pete, wa2cwa ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jm at d8alus.net From james.liles at comcast.net Sat Oct 10 18:44:32 2015 From: james.liles at comcast.net (james.liles at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 17:44:32 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR In-Reply-To: <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net><1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net><29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net><239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com><5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi Bob, Had one of those four legged drone UFO's hovering over the house two weeks ago, loaded the 12 gage and dispatched it. Going to send the body to area 51 for analysis. Guess the Martians beat NASA to it. Turns out a real estate gal came looking for the carcass. Told her to check with Uncle Sam --- she would need a security clearance to retrieve her UFO friends remains from the Area 51 guys. Working on an anti-UFO missile using baseball mitt radar technology. Probably be able to knock those buggers of at 1/2 mile. Just love that new techno stuff. Last time I worked on guidance systems we used rubber bands and an escapement system --- sorta like texting. A friend who is an RC enthusiast started snaring those UFO things using a high performance stealth model airplane by swooping down and dropping a small fishing net on it. Folks started to complain that somehow due to global warming and weather changes, hair nets have started to drop out of the ionosphere. You have a good time with that stuff. Kindest regards Jim K9AXN -----Original Message----- From: rbethman Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:29 AM To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [AMRadio] OT SDR Can I fix it? Yes! Why? I've taken the time to get into the entire realm of Surface Mount Technology! I've been building circuits with them. I've been repairing them. The RaspberryPI DOES have a schematic out there. Didn't cost a single cent! A Nay sayer in this technology is one that either doesn't want to learn, or can't learn from my experience. It is no different than the current arena of Drones or UAVs if you wish. I have one of them also. The control system runs at 5.8GHz. The Camera feed back to the controller that provides FPV, (First Person View), runs at 2.5GHz. It looks the same inside as a Kenwood TS-2000. We have been building better antennas for the 5.8GHz. I can repair and troubleshoot it also. Guess I'm not staying stuck in old tired equipment. I'll keep learning and moving with the new. The next step is mounting a qrp rig under the UAV and making contacts, CW or AM from up to 400 feet above ground. Then tell me how unworkable this is. Regards, Bob - N0DGN On 10/10/2015 12:07 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > Bob, > > Okay so it isn't expensive. what about the rest. Can you fix it when > it breaks? How does it work? Do you get a schematic? Do you think > it will last 20 years? Sorry but my experience with free software is > you get what you pay for. When it comes to computer stuff for radio, > I have a pretty short amount of patience because my radio time is for > radio and not computer. I'll give a problem maybe 10 minutes and if > it doesn't work it goes into the garbage or back for a refund. Life's > too short for QRP and flaky gadgets. > > ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to james.liles at comcast.net From ne1s at securespeed.us Sat Oct 10 19:44:05 2015 From: ne1s at securespeed.us (Larry Szendrei) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 19:44:05 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <56191578.4090905@securespeed.us> Message-ID: <5619A2C5.3070400@securespeed.us> On 10/10/15 10:09 AM, Todd, KA1KAQ wrote: > > As to the SoftRock approach you mentioned Larry, I recall a writeup on > 'fone a several years ago done by Gary/W2INR about the SoftRock kit > made for the R-390A receiver and probably others. Basically it gave > you the benefits of the display while still using your old tube > receiver. The best of both worlds. I still need to track down one of > those kits. Interesting that you used something similar or maybe the > same kit on your SX28. That must provide quite a display - panadaptor > deluxe! > > ~ Todd, KA1KAQ/4 (Hi Todd!) AFAIK, there is no Softrock specifically made for the R-390* receivers. But what is now called the "Softrock Lite II Combined Receiver Kit" can be built for several frequencies, for example, a segment of 40M (whose range of frequencies around the "center frequency" is limited by the sample rate of your soundcard), or, 455KHz as I mentioned. I have the latter (and recently was given one of the former, as well) and it was hooked up to my SX-28 until recently, when I tried it it with my R390/URR. I found the signal off the IF output on the back panel of the receiver was way too strong and overloading the Softrock - no wonder with 5 or 6 stages of IF. I forget the exact number of stages, but it's one or the other. Even with the RF gain control backed off results were lousy. I had a homebrew 50 ohm attenuator someone had given me many years ago - I don't even know the dB of attenuation (but my curiosity is up so I'm going to measure it) - so I stuck it between the R390 and Softrock - it was perfect! Probably reinventing the wheel here, and there may well be a better or simpler way to do it. You'd want to run the R390 bandwidth wide open at 16 KHz, and let the SDR do the filtering as much as possible. Now who needs a CV-157 or CV-591? ;-) Never had an overload issue with the SX-28, but there I'm getting the signal prior to any IF amplification. See http://fivedash.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5 for more info on the Softrock (again, no connection with fivedash.com, etc., etc.) 73, -Larry/NE1S From ne1s at securespeed.us Sat Oct 10 19:59:21 2015 From: ne1s at securespeed.us (Larry Szendrei) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 19:59:21 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR In-Reply-To: References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5619A659.90803@securespeed.us> On 10/10/15 12:07 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > Larry, > > Thanks for your information. I remember the SoftRock things. I think > a guy in Indiana made them, but he never had any in stock. He must > have made them annually in batches of 10 at a time and they were > bought up immediately. Never got my hands on one. I think for a while Tony couldn't make them fast enough, or was short on time/resources, or both. My guess is it's a labor of for him; I doubt he's doing much more than covering his costs. In any case I ordered both of mine in 2013, they were mailed to me promptly, and according to the web page they're in stock (I just checked). I did have to get help with the surface-mount components, because, like you, I'm primarily a tube guy. Not to mention a bit of a klutz ;-) > > In a way, I think SDR makes sense maybe for slopbucket and digital > modes, but since AM and CW are the two legacy transmission modes that > lend themselves so readily to vintage gear, it is hard for me to > understand the need to computerize it. Actually CW even more so. > Here is a mode that involves simple keying of a class C RF final to > make radiotelegraph code characters and folks want to use a digital > computer rig to do that. Seems like a lot of unnecessary > complication. > I generally agree. The continuously-variable bandwidth is awesome for CW, though, when the band is crowded. The shape factor on the filter can be far superior to what can be accomplished in hardware. It seems to me that there is a lot less ringing in the software filters, as well, although I'm not sure why this is. But, generally when I work CW, which isn't that often, I'm a minimalist - a power LC 841 tube oscillator coupled to an antenna, and a RAL, SW-3, or older regenerative receiver. I love it all, and different things float my boat at different times. 73, -Larry/NE1S From ne1s at securespeed.us Sat Oct 10 20:16:23 2015 From: ne1s at securespeed.us (Larry Szendrei) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 20:16:23 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Economic hippy In-Reply-To: <5619AA11.5090608@securespeed.us> References: <1444497253.8931.YahooMailBasic@web160603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5619AA11.5090608@securespeed.us> Message-ID: <5619AA57.1050503@securespeed.us> On 10/10/15 1:14 PM, CL in NC wrote: > To me, a thousand bucks is a thousand bucks no matter what era. Well, there's the effect of inflation on goods priced in dollars which is very real. $1K in 1960 had the same purchasing power as $8K today. And that's using the CPI numbers, which are arguably manipulated and understate the true rate of inflation. Blame the Federal Reserve! > Not wanting to go into debt for that sort of thing puts me in the > economic > hippy category according to a finance guy who thought trying to be > debt free was not the modern way. I resemble that remark! I bought one "Kilobuck" radio in my life, a TS-440S back in 1986 or so, which is my one-and-only "ricebox" and my only "modern" radio (excluding the SDR stuff, which cost much less). One of the attractions of amateur radio and AM in particular, to me, is that it is possible to enjoy the hobby without spending much. My general modus operandi is to take between $30 - $80 of "mad money" to a hamfest - less for the smaller ones and more for the larger fests - and buy mainly parts to keep the junkbox stocked for all the construction, repair, and restoration projects. I'm definitely not a big spender in this hobby. 73, -Larry/NE1S From rbethman at comcast.net Sat Oct 10 20:55:41 2015 From: rbethman at comcast.net (rbethman) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 20:55:41 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR In-Reply-To: References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5619B38D.7070306@comcast.net> Those that don't like the intrusion are entitled to their view. Shoot mine and you'll end up in jail. It only flies over MY property! I don't take any pictures or videos of any one. I record the flight itself, *IF* I run the camera. So you have a good time, and be sure that you don't put yourself in a heap of trouble. You wouldn't like time in jail for discharging a weapon in city limits, and then paying a good bit over a Kilo-Buck to replace it. Now you indeed know my opinion. I don't bother others either! N0DGN On 10/10/2015 6:44 PM, james.liles at comcast.net wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Had one of those four legged drone UFO's hovering over the house two > weeks ago, loaded the 12 gage and dispatched it. Going to send the > body to area 51 for analysis. Guess the Martians beat NASA to it. > Turns out a real estate gal came looking for the carcass. Told her to > check with Uncle Sam --- she would need a security clearance to > retrieve her UFO friends remains from the Area 51 guys. > > Working on an anti-UFO missile using baseball mitt radar technology. > Probably be able to knock those buggers of at 1/2 mile. Just love > that new techno stuff. Last time I worked on guidance systems we used > rubber bands and an escapement system --- sorta like texting. > > A friend who is an RC enthusiast started snaring those UFO things > using a high performance stealth model airplane by swooping down and > dropping a small fishing net on it. Folks started to complain that > somehow due to global warming and weather changes, hair nets have > started to drop out of the ionosphere. > > You have a good time with that stuff. > > Kindest regards Jim K9AXN From dennisgilliam at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 21:08:36 2015 From: dennisgilliam at gmail.com (W7TFO .) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:08:36 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Drones=targets Message-ID: We live on 10ac in the 'neighborless' desert. No city withing a goodly drive. 00 buck awaits those pesky critters, same as rattlers & wild dogs. Besides, a drone could get tangled up in an antenna here and start an RF fire.... 73DG From hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com Sat Oct 10 22:16:19 2015 From: hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com (Jim Liles) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 21:16:19 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR In-Reply-To: <5619B38D.7070306@comcast.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net><1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net><29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net><239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com><5619104A.2050502@comcast.net><56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> <5619B38D.7070306@comcast.net> Message-ID: <163802DC90844A29804771F8164EB400@LILESJLAPTOP> Gosh Bob, Your no fun at all. That thing sounds to be a pet or something. You haven't had it at the table for Thanksgiving dinner have you? You must have guessed that I own no firearms and was just trying to cheer you up a bit. If you believed that one, you may need to talk to someone. Have to say I've flown RC for years and years going back to the rubber band and escapement system. Don't fly any stuff with gyros or auto pilots. Never could get myself to do that. BTW, privacy is a right not just an opinion. You have a super day and lighten up a bit. Kindest regards Jim K9AXN -----Original Message----- From: rbethman Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 7:55 PM To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Cc: james.liles at comcast.net Subject: Re: [AMRadio] OT SDR Those that don't like the intrusion are entitled to their view. Shoot mine and you'll end up in jail. It only flies over MY property! I don't take any pictures or videos of any one. I record the flight itself, *IF* I run the camera. So you have a good time, and be sure that you don't put yourself in a heap of trouble. You wouldn't like time in jail for discharging a weapon in city limits, and then paying a good bit over a Kilo-Buck to replace it. Now you indeed know my opinion. I don't bother others either! N0DGN On 10/10/2015 6:44 PM, james.liles at comcast.net wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Had one of those four legged drone UFO's hovering over the house two weeks > ago, loaded the 12 gage and dispatched it. Going to send the body to area > 51 for analysis. Guess the Martians beat NASA to it. Turns out a real > estate gal came looking for the carcass. Told her to check with Uncle > Sam --- she would need a security clearance to retrieve her UFO friends > remains from the Area 51 guys. > > Working on an anti-UFO missile using baseball mitt radar technology. > Probably be able to knock those buggers of at 1/2 mile. Just love that > new techno stuff. Last time I worked on guidance systems we used rubber > bands and an escapement system --- sorta like texting. > > A friend who is an RC enthusiast started snaring those UFO things using a > high performance stealth model airplane by swooping down and dropping a > small fishing net on it. Folks started to complain that somehow due to > global warming and weather changes, hair nets have started to drop out of > the ionosphere. > > You have a good time with that stuff. > > Kindest regards Jim K9AXN ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com From b.gaz at comcast.net Sat Oct 10 23:26:58 2015 From: b.gaz at comcast.net (b.gaz at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 03:26:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power In-Reply-To: <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <82110653.7161647.1444534018020.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> There is no front end to overload, its a high Q tuned circuit. The antenna input is shorted to ground and I turn the rf gain down. It matches the mod monitor (they track). As far as the sdr goes, its an sdr-iq at the moment, which I like because it works with many programs. The home brew receiver works better (less noise) but the display is great, it shows my signal and other signals, how wide they are, how strong they are, if they are off frequency or not, where people are, and a good amount of info about the modulation. Sync detection with the ability to listen to one sideband or the other is QRM is on one side. A 16 bit unit is a VERY good receiver (the sdr-iq is a 14 bit unit), low noise, high fidelity, any filter width you want and the fantastic display. As a transmitter, the sdr stuff is great also, but limited to 25 watts carrier like most modern 100 watt (pep) radios. I like it all, home brew tube stuff, sdr stuff, if it does AM its ok with me. I got tired of the vintage ham stuff many years ago and sold it all off. It was all crap, with loads of built in weak points, trouble spots and poor performance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff" To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:49:09 AM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] When talking about AM power On 10/09/2015 08:01 PM, b.gaz at comcast.net wrote: > I have and use a scope off the receiver IF, The problem with that is, the IF gets saturated and the AGC of the receiver doesn't respond accurately. Let's say you're running a transmitter like John/WA5BXO built up, that has enough audio power in the modulator to properly modulate his carrier with his peak'ed asymmetrical voice. If you try to monitor that signal in the IF of a receiver, you'll never see the positive peaks of the signal, until you turn off the AGC and reduce the RF Gain to the point where the signal is not overloading the front end of the receiver. Best thing to do for a monitor scope is to take some small coax and feed it into the scope's BNC or banana-jack input, and run the other end outside near the antenna. 5 or 6 turns and a couple of inches diameter (nothing is exact) of some stiff copper wire connected to the coax and supported somewhere will give a much truer reading of what your transmitter is producing. Monitor transmitted signals, not those that are passed through multiple stages in a receiver. > and an sdr spectrum display. Now, that's something I'd like to get into, as well. The spectrum display on an SDR device. SDR intrigues me. I've played with a couple of on-line SDR receivers and seeing the actual bandwidth of some stations is amazing. Having a receiver with no other noise and only monitoring the transmitted audio would tell a lot about some other components of the transmitted signal. 73 = Best Regards, -Geoff/W5OMR ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to b.gaz at comcast.net From hbrnut at suddenlink.net Sun Oct 11 08:07:43 2015 From: hbrnut at suddenlink.net (WA5VGO) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 07:07:43 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR In-Reply-To: <163802DC90844A29804771F8164EB400@LILESJLAPTOP> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> <5619B38D.7070306@comcast.net> <163802DC90844A29804771F8164EB400@LILESJLAPTOP> Message-ID: <15A96992-D64F-44CB-B4E6-7A0391F18DBE@suddenlink.net> This whole thing is kind of off topic, but for those that might contemplate shooting one down, I caution you that you do not own the airspace above your property, and shooting one down in many cases is a felony. Darrell > On Oct 10, 2015, at 9:16 PM, Jim Liles wrote: > > Gosh Bob, > > Your no fun at all. That thing sounds to be a pet or something. You haven't had it at the table for Thanksgiving dinner have you? > > You must have guessed that I own no firearms and was just trying to cheer you up a bit. If you believed that one, you may need to talk to someone. > > Have to say I've flown RC for years and years going back to the rubber band and escapement system. Don't fly any stuff with gyros or auto pilots. Never could get myself to do that. > > BTW, privacy is a right not just an opinion. > > You have a super day and lighten up a bit. Kindest regards Jim K9AXN > > -----Original Message----- From: rbethman > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 7:55 PM > To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Cc: james.liles at comcast.net > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] OT SDR > > Those that don't like the intrusion are entitled to their view. > > Shoot mine and you'll end up in jail. It only flies over MY property! > > I don't take any pictures or videos of any one. I record the flight > itself, *IF* I run the camera. > > So you have a good time, and be sure that you don't put yourself in a > heap of trouble. > > You wouldn't like time in jail for discharging a weapon in city limits, > and then paying a good bit over a Kilo-Buck to replace it. > > Now you indeed know my opinion. I don't bother others either! > > N0DGN > > >> On 10/10/2015 6:44 PM, james.liles at comcast.net wrote: >> Hi Bob, >> >> Had one of those four legged drone UFO's hovering over the house two weeks ago, loaded the 12 gage and dispatched it. Going to send the body to area 51 for analysis. Guess the Martians beat NASA to it. Turns out a real estate gal came looking for the carcass. Told her to check with Uncle Sam --- she would need a security clearance to retrieve her UFO friends remains from the Area 51 guys. >> >> Working on an anti-UFO missile using baseball mitt radar technology. Probably be able to knock those buggers of at 1/2 mile. Just love that new techno stuff. Last time I worked on guidance systems we used rubber bands and an escapement system --- sorta like texting. >> >> A friend who is an RC enthusiast started snaring those UFO things using a high performance stealth model airplane by swooping down and dropping a small fishing net on it. Folks started to complain that somehow due to global warming and weather changes, hair nets have started to drop out of the ionosphere. >> >> You have a good time with that stuff. >> >> Kindest regards Jim K9AXN > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to hbrnut at suddenlink.net From paul at paulbaldock.com Sun Oct 11 13:14:46 2015 From: paul at paulbaldock.com (Paul Baldock) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:14:46 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Need to Replace or Rebuild Modulation Transformer In-Reply-To: <163802DC90844A29804771F8164EB400@LILESJLAPTOP> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> <5619B38D.7070306@comcast.net> <163802DC90844A29804771F8164EB400@LILESJLAPTOP> Message-ID: My Thordarson T-21M64 modulation transformer has developed a primary to secondary short. Does anybody have one they would like to sell, or alternatively can recommend a rebuilding service Thanks - Paul - KW7Y --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From don.kd2fo at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 13:23:29 2015 From: don.kd2fo at gmail.com (Don Rasmussen) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:23:29 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Need to Replace or Rebuild Modulation Transformer In-Reply-To: <20151011171527.6D973149AFB9@mailman.qth.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> <5619B38D.7070306@comcast.net> <163802DC90844A29804771F8164EB400@LILESJLAPTOP> <20151011171527.6D973149AFB9@mailman.qth.net> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Yes....I can recommend a transformer rebuilding company. They do have most amateur transformer specifications too! They rebuilt the HV plate transformer for a Globe King 500C for a friend of mine. They do NOT require your old transformer [usually] as they have the physical and electrical specifications on file. Please go to this link: http://www.heyboertransformers.com/ 73 de kd2fo, Don On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Paul Baldock wrote: > My Thordarson T-21M64 modulation transformer has developed a primary to > secondary short. > > Does anybody have one they would like to sell, or alternatively can > recommend a rebuilding service > > Thanks > > - Paul > - KW7Y > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to don.kd2fo at gmail.com > From rsauvan at beyondbb.com Sun Oct 11 13:34:04 2015 From: rsauvan at beyondbb.com (Robert Sauvan) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:34:04 -0600 Subject: [AMRadio] Need to Replace or Rebuild Modulation Transformer In-Reply-To: References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> <5619B38D.7070306@comcast.net> <163802DC90844A29804771F8164EB400@LILESJLAPTOP> <20151011171527.6D973149AFB9@mailman.qth.net> Message-ID: <561A9D8C.9050400@beyondbb.com> I would also recommend these people as well. I have bought a number of transformers from them. Be sure you discuss the housing and mounting dimensions and style with them in detail though as you may not get the same when you receive it. I have always dealt with a fella named Alden. They are very reasonable. Bob-W0YBS On 10/11/2015 11:23 AM, Don Rasmussen wrote: > Hi Paul, > > Yes....I can recommend a transformer rebuilding company. They > do have most amateur transformer specifications too! > > They rebuilt the HV plate transformer for a Globe King 500C for a > friend of mine. They do NOT require your old transformer [usually] as > they have the physical and electrical specifications on file. Please go > to this link: > > http://www.heyboertransformers.com/ > > 73 de kd2fo, Don > > On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Paul Baldock wrote: > >> My Thordarson T-21M64 modulation transformer has developed a primary to >> secondary short. >> >> Does anybody have one they would like to sell, or alternatively can >> recommend a rebuilding service >> >> Thanks >> >> - Paul >> - KW7Y >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >> AMRadio mailing list >> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >> the word unsubscribe in the message body. >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to don.kd2fo at gmail.com >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rsauvan at beyondbb.com > -- Thanks Bob Sauvan-W0YBS rsauvan at beyondbb.com http://w0ybs.com From dennisgilliam at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 13:46:04 2015 From: dennisgilliam at gmail.com (W7TFO .) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:46:04 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Mod trans Message-ID: I have a number of good units for sale in that power range. www.signalsradio.wordpress.com for contact info. 73 W7TFO From jtml at losalamos.com Sun Oct 11 14:25:41 2015 From: jtml at losalamos.com (John Lyles) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 12:25:41 -0600 Subject: [AMRadio] Need to Replace or Rebuild Modulation Transformer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561AA9A5.5010701@losalamos.com> Could you elaborate on the impedance ratio, VA or current rating of the secondary and audio power that a T21M64 has? Some of us have mod transformers from Stancor, Chicago, UTC, that might fit the same requirements with different mounting. Or are you stuck with that exact part? John K5PRO > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:14:46 -0700 > From: Paul Baldock > Subject: [AMRadio] Need to Replace or Rebuild Modulation Transformer > > My Thordarson T-21M64 modulation transformer has developed a primary > to secondary short. > > Does anybody have one they would like to sell, or alternatively > can recommend a rebuilding service From paul at paulbaldock.com Sun Oct 11 15:02:50 2015 From: paul at paulbaldock.com (Paul Baldock) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 12:02:50 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Need to Replace or Rebuild Modulation Transformer In-Reply-To: <561AA9A5.5010701@losalamos.com> References: <561AA9A5.5010701@losalamos.com> Message-ID: It needs to fit my chassis opening (max 5 1/8" wide, 9 1/4" deep. 6" tall). It's for two 813s modulated by two 813s. Primary to Secondary is 1.32:1. Power rating is 300W, 250mA. - Paul At 11:25 AM 10/11/2015, John Lyles wrote: >Could you elaborate on the impedance ratio, VA or current rating of >the secondary and audio power that a T21M64 has? >Some of us have mod transformers from Stancor, Chicago, UTC, that >might fit the same requirements with different mounting. Or are you >stuck with that exact part? >John >K5PRO >>Message: 3 >>Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:14:46 -0700 >>From: Paul Baldock >>Subject: [AMRadio] Need to Replace or Rebuild Modulation Transformer >> >>My Thordarson T-21M64 modulation transformer has developed a primary >>to secondary short. >> >>Does anybody have one they would like to sell, or alternatively >>can recommend a rebuilding service > >______________________________________________________________ >Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >AMRadio mailing list >Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to paul at paulbaldock.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From paul at paulbaldock.com Sun Oct 11 15:04:47 2015 From: paul at paulbaldock.com (Paul Baldock) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 12:04:47 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] [Boatanchors] Need to Replace or Rebuild Modulation Transformer In-Reply-To: <561AB1EB.6080005@ec.rr.com> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> <5619B38D.7070306@comcast.net> <163802DC90844A29804771F8164EB400@LILESJLAPTOP> <20151011171534.860D2149B19F@mailman.qth.net> <561AB1EB.6080005@ec.rr.com> Message-ID: Thanks. I have contacted him. - Paul At 12:00 PM 10/11/2015, Al Parker wrote: >Hi Paul, > Gary Brown, WZ1M, does rewinding, has done a cupl for me, > great job and good pricing. try xfrmrs at roadrunner.com for him >73, > >Al, W8UT >www.boatanchors.org >www.hammarlund.info > >"There is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much >worth doing as simply messing about in boats" >Ratty, to Mole > >On 10/11/2015 1:14 PM, Paul Baldock wrote: >>My Thordarson T-21M64 modulation transformer has developed a primary to >>secondary short. >> >>Does anybody have one they would like to sell, or alternatively can >>recommend a rebuilding service >> >>Thanks >> >>- Paul >>- KW7Y --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From kenw8ek at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 19:28:51 2015 From: kenw8ek at gmail.com (Ken, W8EK) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 19:28:51 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Various Microphones FS Message-ID: <561AF0B3.30106@gmail.com> Icom, Kenwood, Yaesu, DTMF Touch Tone, Speaker Microphones, etc. For Sale: Icom Microphones: Icom HM-133 V Remote Control DTMF Microphone: This mic has a DTMF Touch Tone pad on it, but also offers full remote control including VFO select, Up-Down tuning and memory select. It also has keypad back lighting. It has an 8 pin modular plug and is used with the IC-2100, IC-2200, IC-2300, IC-2725, IC-V8000, and others. This one appears to be new, unused, still in its original plastic bag. With paper work for $40. Kenwood Hand Microphones: Hand Microphone with round 8 pin plug for Kenwood, Alinco, etc. This hand mic works great on most Kenwood rigs with the round 8 pin connector, such as the TS-430, TS-440, TM-241, TM-2530, TW-4000, and others, including Alinco and ADI. It says "Electret Condenser Mic" on the back, and "Kenwood" on the front, with no model number. Basically, this mic functions like an MC-43, with a couple more features. It has the mic and PTT switch; it also has up/down switches on the top. There are four "extra" buttons labeled Call, VFO, MR, and PF. What these four buttons do depends on the rig. There is also a "Lock" switch on the back. Regardless if you use the four extra buttons or not, you still have a mic that works like an MC-43. This mic works fine, and looks like new. I am guessing it came with a rig, and was immediately put in the drawer, and never used. $30 Yaesu Hand Microphones: Yaesu YM-17 hand mic: The YM-17 is a hand microphone with up/down switches on the top corner. It has the round 6 pin connector. This one works fine and looks really great. $30 Yaesu YM-31 hand mic: The Yaesu YM-31 is a hand mic with a round 6 pin connector. Apparently it is either similar or the same as the MH-25A6j (not the MH-25 with the 8 pin connector). It is a 600 ohm impedance hand microphone, and has a Monitor on-off switch on the back. It looks very similar to the Yaesu MH-1. This one works fine and looks extremely nice. $25 DTMF Touch Tone Microphones: Drake 1525 EM Touchtone (DTMF) Microphone This is the mic that was used to add a touchtone pad to many rigs in the 70s and 80s. Normal hand mic from the front, but a touchtone pad on the back. Four pin mic plug. This one has been used, but is in good shape and includes paper work. $35 Johnson 250-0761-010 / CES 655 L DTMF Mic It has a 12 digit pad on the front, and is a rugged mic. Presently with 4 pin connector. It looks to be unused. $38 HT Speaker Microphones: Both of these speaker mics have the 3.5 mm and 2.5 mm two conductor plugs that are spaced about 3/8 inch apart, and are molded into a single connector. They are used on Icom, Yaesu, Radio Shack, Maxon, Ritron, Vertex and many other radios. Premier SPM-100 It is a lightweight and compact unit, featuring a powerful speaker as well as a high-quality condenser-style microphone element that produces excellent transmitted audio clarity. The microphone may be secured to the user's lapel or shoulder. It also features a built-in 3.5mm jack for using an external earphone. $17 DM-100 Appears to be the same as the SPM-100 above, but just with a different label. $17 I also have many other accessories available such as many different types of microphones, HTs, HF, VHF and UHF rigs, HF and VHF/UHF antennas, etc. Just too many to list here. Please e-mail your requests. Prices do not include shipping from Florida. Thanks. 73, Ken, W8EK Ken Simpson E-mail to W8EK at FLHam.net or W8EK at arrl.net Voice Phone (352) 732-8400 From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 21:12:03 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:12:03 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] In Defence of Old Buzzard Transmissions In-Reply-To: <000e01d10396$6e59c650$4b0d52f0$@charter.net> References: <000e01d10396$6e59c650$4b0d52f0$@charter.net> Message-ID: When I first started regularly operating AM, I don't think I realized what has to happen to get from receive to transmit with separate transmitters and receivers. When I go from receive to transmit with the 3-400 rig, the following events take place when I flip the toggle switch to transmit (having expelled all foot switches from the station): The T/R sequencer sends 24 v. to relays that key on the VFO, flip the big T/R antenna relay to the transmitter and switch all receivers and rx antenna preamps to ground. about 2/10s of a second later the sequencer sends 24 v. to a pilot relay in the rig that switches on 120 v. to a bigger relay coil and it closes and energizes the final plate supply primary and driver to put the transmitter on the air. If the final comes on, then about 2/10 second later, h.v. comes on for the rig's modulator. Then I can start talking, although if the other fellow has a strapping signal with good audio, I'd rather keep listening. On going to receive the reverse of everything happens. All of the above is probably standard procedure and common knowledge for most operators. It also explains why once I get into transmit I am willing to stay there for a while. Not interested in flipping through all that and back again to make a 5 second transmission on a regular basis. Perhaps more important, the orderly group round robin method of participation has some benefits. If done right, everyone knows each other's call signs and where they fit in the sequence because some sort of legal ID is at the start and end of every transmission. Everyone is afforded the time to take notes and think of deliberate thoughtful comment by the time it is their turn. The AM mode with its carrier allows for pauses. When people are engaged in thoughtful, sedate conversation, there are pauses. This is normal. This conversation is usually congenial and less likely to include knee-jerk responses that escalate into arguments. I'm not wild about the fast make and break method because it can spin into chaos with doubling, little IDing, and an almost random direction to the conversation. Maybe it is okay in the daytime when everyone is not too distant and all participants know each other well. Some of this preference may depend on the operator's personality. I usually take notes and I have things to say. If I were a man of few words, I might like the fast break-in QSOs. One thing that is irritating is when a ham with a weak signal lets his carrier drop with no indication that he deliberately ended this transmission. If he is piss weak you might not even know. I have gotten to where if I get any flack about a long transmission I ignore it. The other operator can go somewhere else and start a QSO to his liking. Everything in my station is built to handle continuous duty no time limit. I didn't do all that work to make 5 second transmissions. This is one reason I avoid the high bands. The folks up there seem to operate as if they are on a FM repeater. Not my cup of tea. The one exception to all this is nets. Unrelated note: Someone paid $737 for a B&W 5100!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-W-5100-B-TRANSMITTER-/351536011430 73 Rob K5UJ On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Donald Chester wrote: > Some people like short, quick exchanges, while others prefer the round-table > type of QSO. In roundtables the transmissions can get lengthy, so it can be > difficult to maintain the thread of a conversation, particularly with more > than a couple of stations in the QSO. > > To me, it depends. If I just want to rag chew with no urgent topic at hand, > the round-table is fine, but when discussing a specific topic that requires > exchanging pertinent information with another person, such as instructions > on how to do something, the quick-exchange works better. In any case, I > prefer to keep the group small, 3 or 4 participants, maximum. "When the > group grows to four, that's the time to hit the door"... time to branch > off to another frequency and start a new QSO, thus increasing AM presence > in the band. Something I find particularly annoying, however, is for > someone to break into a QSO, knowing their signal is piss-weak, and then > proceed to make a filibuster transmission... "The weaker they are, the > longer they talk." > > Some of us have been repeatedly admonished for making excessively long > transmissions. However, there is one situation where the old-buzzard > transmission is the way to go, and I don't mind four or more others in the > QSO (as long as everyone in the group is delivering a readable signal to > everyone else). When band conditions are good and everyone in the group has > solid copy, I like to carry on a casual conversation while working on a > project at the bench, or as the other night, doing some household chore like > snapping green beans, something that occupies both hands, without demanding > full undivided mental effort while working. That way, one can get in some > useful bench time between transmissions, and when it's one's time to > transmit, that provides a pleasant break from tasks like soldering and > wiring up a circuit, digging for something in the junk box, or drilling, > filing, sawing and other metal work. It's very difficult to do those tasks > while carrying on a quick-exchange type of QSO. > > OTOH, this seldom works with problem-solving tasks like studying a > schematic or trying to troubleshoot a malfunction. > > You can usually tell that's what I'm doing, when someone turns it over to > me, and it takes 15 seconds or more before I start transmitting. > > > Don k4kyv From k4kyv at charter.net Mon Oct 12 04:13:35 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:13:35 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] In Defence of Old Buzzard Transmissions In-Reply-To: References: <000e01d10396$6e59c650$4b0d52f0$@charter.net> Message-ID: <001601d104c5$e4ae4670$ae0ad350$@charter.net> From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rob Atkinson > When I first started regularly operating AM, I don't think I realized what has to happen to get from receive to transmit with separate transmitters and receivers. When I go from receive to transmit with the 3-400 rig, the following events take place when I flip the toggle switch to transmit (having expelled all foot switches from the station): > The T/R sequencer sends 24 v. to relays that key on the VFO, flip the big T/R antenna relay to the transmitter and switch all receivers and rx antenna preamps to ground. about 2/10s of a second later the sequencer sends 24 v. to a pilot relay in the rig that switches on 120 v. to a bigger relay coil and it closes and energizes the final plate supply primary and driver to put the transmitter on the air. > Then I can start talking, although if the other fellow has a strapping signal with good audio, I'd rather keep listening. > On going to receive the reverse of everything happens. > All of the above is probably standard procedure and common knowledge for most operators. It also explains why once I get into transmit I am willing to stay there for a while. Not interested in flipping through all that and back again to make a 5 second transmission on a regular basis. But if I read that correctly, you only flip one switch, and the sequencer takes care of the rest, so you have about a 4/10 second delay. That shouldn't affect your ability to do the fast-break type of QSO if that's what you wish. My sequencing completes in only about a quarter of a second. I hold my T/R switch in one hand while operating, or rest it in my lap on a hook attached to the operating desk. It is tied to the rig via a spiral cord similar to that of a hand mic, actually a stereo headphones extension cord on which I replaced the connector with the switch on one end. It extends out fully to about 12 feet, allowing me to hold the switch in one hand and walk behind the transmitter where I can switch the transmitter on and off to see what's happening if I need to observe or troubleshoot something. I tried a foot switch one time shortly after getting my first station together and it sucked, so I mounted the T/R switch on a small sub-panel on the operating desk. Later on, I added a D-104 desk mic with G-stand for operating phone, before coming up with the idea of attaching the T/R switch to the end of the spiral cord, something that wasn't totally my own idea. It occurred to me after visiting another ham's station (don't remember who or where). He had a regular toggle switch attached to the end of a piece of zip cord with electrical tape wrapped over exposed screw terminals - a JS arrangement but it worked. I improved on the idea by using the spiral cord, and instead of a run-of-the-mill toggle switch with exposed terminals I have a high quality Bakelite a.c. line cord switch. Rob, you remember the switch; we found a bunch at Dayton a couple of years ago, where I picked up some for spares. I hate a switch attached to a desk mic almost as much as I hate a foot switch (I think a foot switch is just plain silly). My T/R switch on the spiral cord works well with my boom-mounted microphone. With this arrangement, I can do fast break or old buzzard round table as I see fit. > If the final comes on, then about 2/10 second later, h.v. comes on for the rig's modulator. Looks like your sequencer set-up has a total of three-steps. Do you have two separate sequencers in tandem, so that step 2 of the first sequencer initiates step one of the second, or did you design the sequencer to operate in three steps? Mine is two-step. When I first actuate the switch to transmit, the antenna change-over relay, the monitor scope and the VFO all come on instantly, as the receiver turns off, along with the antenna shorting relay I use as an added precaution to protect the receiver's rf input coil. In step two following about 2/10 second of delay, the transmitter comes on. When I switch back to receive, the whole process is reversed. One master relay controls power to all the plate transformers in the transmitter, so the rf exciter, modulator and final all come on simultaneously. I use arc gaps across the primary of the modulation transformer to protect it in case the load is lost as a result of a failure associated with the RF final. Like you, I use a pilot relay to activate the big antenna change-over, since its heavy-duty coil is 115 volts a.c. while all the rest of my relays run on about 30 volts d.c. The main purpose of my sequencer is to avoid hot-switching the antenna change-over relay, which was burning up the contacts. > One thing that is irritating is when a ham with a weak signal lets his carrier drop with > no indication that he deliberately ended this transmission. If he is > piss weak you might not even know. That drives me up a wall, when someone makes a lengthy transmission and then abruptly drops the carrier for me to reply, unannounced. It's not all that difficult to say "go ahead" or "over" at the end of a transmission. If the QSO is fast-break, that's not so much a problem because everyone anticipates that you will say only a few words before dropping the carrier. In fact, in a fast-break QSO where everyone has a solid signal, it can be annoying for everyone to say "over" at the end of each transmission. If signals are marginal, it helps to give some kind of indication that the transmission has ended, regardless. (anything except a CB style "roger beep") Speaking of annoying and chaotic, the very worst has to be to operate AM using VOX, particularly making long transmissions with the carrier dropping out and back in at every pause in speech. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From ka1kaq at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 09:27:54 2015 From: ka1kaq at gmail.com (Todd, KA1KAQ) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:27:54 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Need to Replace or Rebuild Modulation Transformer In-Reply-To: <20151011171515.331DC149AFFB@mailman.qth.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> <56193CD1.5010802@comcast.net> <5619B38D.7070306@comcast.net> <163802DC90844A29804771F8164EB400@LILESJLAPTOP> <20151011171515.331DC149AFFB@mailman.qth.net> Message-ID: Gary Brown/WZ1M has a rewinding business in Maine. He's rewound everything from KW-1s and Johnson Kilowatts to GPR-90s. He rewinds for a number of the restorers out there. Does great work, fair price, stands behind his work. He's done a modulation transformer and BC choke for me. xfrmrs at roadrunner.com On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Paul Baldock wrote: > My Thordarson T-21M64 modulation transformer has developed a primary to > secondary short. > > Does anybody have one they would like to sell, or alternatively can > recommend a rebuilding service > > Thanks > > - Paul > - KW7Y > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ka1kaq at gmail.com > From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 13:04:05 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 12:04:05 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] In Defence of Old Buzzard Transmissions In-Reply-To: <001601d104c5$e4ae4670$ae0ad350$@charter.net> References: <000e01d10396$6e59c650$4b0d52f0$@charter.net> <001601d104c5$e4ae4670$ae0ad350$@charter.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Donald Chester wrote: > > >> All of the above is probably standard procedure and common knowledge for > most operators. It also explains why once I get into transmit I am willing > to stay there for a while. Not interested in flipping through all that and > back again to make a 5 second transmission on a regular basis. > > But if I read that correctly, you only flip one switch, and the sequencer > takes care of the rest, so you have about a 4/10 second delay. That > shouldn't affect your ability to do the fast-break type of QSO if that's > what you wish. That's correct, but I don't like repeated toggling from rx to tx dozens of times during the course of the evening each re-energizing h.v. transformers; however perhaps I am overly cautious. Rob, you remember the > switch; we found a bunch at Dayton a couple of years ago, where I picked up > some for spares. I hate a switch attached to a desk mic almost as much as I > hate a foot switch (I think a foot switch is just plain silly). My T/R > switch on the spiral cord works well with my boom-mounted microphone. > I sure remember those switches and I think I got two of them and they're sitting on my operating table. What stinks about foot switches (one thing) is the need to keep constant pressure on them. Back when I had one I would have to pick it up off the floor and hold it in my hand to insure it stayed closed. A hand held toggle switch is much better. >> If the final comes on, then about 2/10 second later, h.v. comes on for the > rig's modulator. > > Looks like your sequencer set-up has a total of three-steps. It's the one you wrote about in the November 2005 ER. It's only two steps, but the 3-400 rig has a built-in mod. iron protection circuit, one of a number of controls in it that the original engineer designer did in an attempt to make it idiot proof. It's real nice to have when there are separate supplies for the final and modulator but it is part of the rig's mystery I am gradually trying to figure out. The mod. delay circuit includes a small rheostat on the rear chassis of the final that allows for the adjustment of the delay time. Another protection that is okay but adds complexity is that the final h.v. won't come on if there is no grid drive. I dimly recall that with 3-400 and 3-500, loss of drive isn't a fiasco, but perhaps that is only if the tube is grounded grid and cathode driven. Do you have > two separate sequencers in tandem, so that step 2 of the first sequencer > initiates step one of the second, or did you design the sequencer to operate > in three steps? Mine is two-step. When I first actuate the switch to > transmit, the antenna change-over relay, the monitor scope and the VFO all > come on instantly, as the receiver turns off, along with the antenna > shorting relay I use as an added precaution to protect the receiver's rf > input coil. In step two following about 2/10 second of delay, the > transmitter comes on. When I switch back to receive, the whole process is > reversed. One master relay controls power to all the plate transformers in > the transmitter, so the rf exciter, modulator and final all come on > simultaneously. I use arc gaps across the primary of the modulation > transformer to protect it in case the load is lost as a result of a failure > associated with the RF final. I spent an entire day a few years ago experimenting with relays to come up with a method that would best isolate the rx on transmit and protect the input coil. The way I do it now is almost too good because I can't hear the 122 VFO for spotting on the CW rig. On the 3-400 rig I spot with both the vfo and driver. The RCA mod iron in the rig also has arc gaps. Like you, I use a pilot relay to activate the > big antenna change-over, since its heavy-duty coil is 115 volts a.c. while > all the rest of my relays run on about 30 volts d.c. The main purpose of my > sequencer is to avoid hot-switching the antenna change-over relay, which > was burning up the contacts. > I put a large P&B 4PDT 24 v. relay in a die cast aluminum box for the main T/R relay. It is made with copper arms, silver contacts and brass/aluminum lugs. 3 poles handle RF; the 4th one is used to short the rx line to ground on tx. > > Speaking of annoying and chaotic, the very worst has to be to operate AM > using VOX, particularly making long transmissions with the carrier dropping > out and back in at every pause in speech. > AM VOX is one thing I have yet to hear (fortunately). Rob K5UJ From w3slk at verizon.net Mon Oct 12 13:43:18 2015 From: w3slk at verizon.net (Mike Sawyer) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:43:18 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] In Defence of Old Buzzard Transmissions In-Reply-To: References: <000e01d10396$6e59c650$4b0d52f0$@charter.net> <001601d104c5$e4ae4670$ae0ad350$@charter.net> Message-ID: <000001d10515$7ea7bff0$7bf73fd0$@verizon.net> FWIW, I use a garage door 'Open-Close-Stop' switch box connected to P&B latching relay. The relay mutes the receiver and keys the transmitter. When I hit the Close switch, it breaks the latch and I'm back in receive mode. Mod-U-Lator, Mike(y)/W3SLK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- Do you have > two separate sequencers in tandem, so that step 2 of the first > sequencer initiates step one of the second, or did you design the > sequencer to operate in three steps? Mine is two-step. When I first > actuate the switch to transmit, the antenna change-over relay, the > monitor scope and the VFO all come on instantly, as the receiver turns > off, along with the antenna shorting relay I use as an added > precaution to protect the receiver's rf input coil. In step two > following about 2/10 second of delay, the transmitter comes on. When > I switch back to receive, the whole process is reversed. One master > relay controls power to all the plate transformers in the transmitter, > so the rf exciter, modulator and final all come on simultaneously. I > use arc gaps across the primary of the modulation transformer to > protect it in case the load is lost as a result of a failure associated with the RF final. I spent an entire day a few years ago experimenting with relays to come up with a method that would best isolate the rx on transmit and protect the input coil. The way I do it now is almost too good because I can't hear the 122 VFO for spotting on the CW rig. On the 3-400 rig I spot with both the vfo and driver. The RCA mod iron in the rig also has arc gaps. Like you, I use a pilot relay to activate the > big antenna change-over, since its heavy-duty coil is 115 volts a.c. > while all the rest of my relays run on about 30 volts d.c. The main > purpose of my sequencer is to avoid hot-switching the antenna > change-over relay, which was burning up the contacts. > I put a large P&B 4PDT 24 v. relay in a die cast aluminum box for the main T/R relay. It is made with copper arms, silver contacts and brass/aluminum lugs. 3 poles handle RF; the 4th one is used to short the rx line to ground on tx. > > Speaking of annoying and chaotic, the very worst has to be to operate > AM using VOX, particularly making long transmissions with the carrier > dropping out and back in at every pause in speech. > AM VOX is one thing I have yet to hear (fortunately). Rob K5UJ From qedconsultants at embarqmail.com Mon Oct 12 14:01:23 2015 From: qedconsultants at embarqmail.com (Bernie Doran) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:01:23 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] SDR In-Reply-To: <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net><1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net><29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net><239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net><5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7FB3424A1C4B460BAE60C2FD69CB5314@berniePC> Not sure about the concern for longevity of the SDR boxes. I still have my first PC that ran 16K of ram and stored programs on cassette tape, I have worked with 4 bit processors (4040) that ran at about a few MC. Still have 5 1/4 floppies and 3 1/4 floppies. someplace is a 20 meg ( gasp) hard drive. My 75A4 bought new when I was a pup and thought money was to buy toys with, is used nearly every day and hears as well as anything out there and better than most. even my 75A2 is a remarkable rx. So yes, the SDR boxes will be around in 50 years. I have one here and it rests on the floor beside me, holding a stack of magazines in place. probably should go up and sit beside the Rat Shack model 3. Bernie W8RPW ----- Original Message ----- From: "rbethman" To: Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:19 AM Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR > The SDR does not have to cost anywhere remotely close to $3500! > > A RaspberryPi runs around $65, the Dongle runs from $8 to $14. > > The SRD# software is just plain free. > > The other part is sold through Hayseed Hamfest, it is the RANverter. It > costs $45.90 > > The whopping total of $125. > > The RANverter is a kit, and there are NO surface Mount Components > whatsoever! > > RaspberryPI is its own computer, uses the ARM7 processor, the very same > one in Android phones, it is a quad core, it is just a hair bigger than a > pack of cigarettes. It has a CATV jack, 4 USB ports, HDMI for monitors, > or you can convert it to analog in lieu of digital video output. The > cores run at 900MHz. > > Those folks that go out and spend $3500 are insane! > > Get into contact with W9RAN, Robert Nickels. > > He can go through the entire setup with you. He has been working with the > man that writes the software. So Robert is well up on the entire setup. > > I've been playing around with it for around 6 or so months. > > Regards, Bob - N0DGN > > > > On 10/10/2015 6:14 AM, Rob Atkinson wrote: >> About the only thing that would be nice about SDR is the fish finder. >> >> But for me the cons outweigh the pros: >> >> Have to have a computer. >> Have to "boot up" the rig >> Forget fixing anything if it breaks. Throw away the PC card or maybe >> the whole thing and get another one. Or "send it in to the shop." >> >> Whenever I hear a ham say "The rig is out for repairs" I think how >> sad. I am trying to not be one of those type hams. >> >> Does anyone really know how one of those rigs works? Can I point to a >> cap or resistor and ask what is that there for and get an answer? Is >> there a schematic even? >> >> The cost. $3500 !!! at least for that Anan thing, a little box with >> an on/off switch. Does anyone think that 3500 dollar rig will be >> running in 40 years? I guess it doesn't matter for me because I'll be >> SK most likely but 3500 can buy some nice antenna improvements that >> won't go out of date. I work some piss weak guys with SDRs and I wish >> they had spent the money on a higher antenna, hi. >> >> And the software fee. If you get a Flex Radio you have to pay a >> regular maintenance fee. What do they think this is, the iPhone >> (which I think is also for suckers). >> >> The whole thing with computers and software is a red alert. How long >> before an OS update, or a new driver, or some other issue comes up and >> the user is plunged into incompatibility hell looking for dependencies >> or decoding gibberish from some computer geek because the rig won't >> work. Or the computer craps out and has to be replaced. I just want >> to fire everything up and have a QSO. For now having a nice spectrum >> display isn't worth the hassle, time and cost. >> >> 73 >> >> Rob >> K5UJ >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Geoff wrote: >>> >>> SDR intrigues me. I've played with a couple of on-line SDR receivers >>> and seeing the actual bandwidth of some stations is amazing. Having a >>> receiver with no other noise and only monitoring the transmitted audio >>> would tell a lot about some other components of the transmitted signal. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to qedconsultants at embarqmail.com From rbethman at comcast.net Mon Oct 12 17:31:48 2015 From: rbethman at comcast.net (rbethman) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:31:48 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] SDR In-Reply-To: <7FB3424A1C4B460BAE60C2FD69CB5314@berniePC> References: <001401d1020c$66f32950$34d97bf0$@charter.net> <1308638330.5825720.1444347204464.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <000f01d1022c$d3edd210$7bc97630$@charter.net> <29701590.5923315.1444359726912.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <005801d1029b$c97d17e0$5c7747a0$@charter.net> <239417497.6624259.1444438874560.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <5618DF15.1030005@gmail.com> <5619104A.2050502@comcast.net> <7FB3424A1C4B460BAE60C2FD69CB5314@berniePC> Message-ID: <561C26C4.1050604@comcast.net> All, The SDR using RaspberryPI systems are nothing more than what is inside an Android Phone or Tablet. They use ARM7 processors. The Android Phones get "firmware" updates on a regular basis. To any that worry about the Operating Systems, the RaspberryPI systems, Android Phones and/or Tablets are ALL running Linux. It is simply a version of Unix that is published under Creative Commons Public License. I don't see that the SDR using these platforms is ever going to become obsolete in my lifetime. I may well be 65, but all my relatives, Mother, Father, Aunts, Uncles, and Grandparents have lived to at least 84. I figure I'll keep kicking and using, building, and repairing the SMT circuits for a long time to come! I too remember the Mohawk Computers that used the 4004 CPU. Then Apple came along with the 6502, CP/M came out on Z-80s, and I have managed to work the different software either through Assembly, Machine, Binary, (I worked on the Hughes 3118B system that used core memory!), lived through MS-DOS, IBM-DOS on the 360 systems, and every version of Windows through 64 bit 7. So longevity is not a big deal! The RaspberryPI systems only develop issues when folks load them up to every possible method of device attachment is in full use and the owner doesn't add the fan option! So all those that get to where their drawers are in a Knot over worrying having to toss it out and buy new, just need to relax. The solid state lasts for very long periods of time when treated right. You wouldn't run 3-500Zs without a fan would you? I still have an early '60s AM/FM transistor radio that works just as well as it ever did! Those of us that restored and used old military surplus tube based gear had to take care of it also. Regards, Bob - N0DGN On 10/12/2015 2:01 PM, Bernie Doran wrote: > Not sure about the concern for longevity of the SDR boxes. I still > have my first PC that ran 16K of ram and stored programs on cassette > tape, I have worked with 4 bit processors (4040) that ran at about a > few MC. Still have 5 1/4 floppies and 3 1/4 floppies. someplace is a > 20 meg ( gasp) hard drive. My 75A4 bought new when I was a pup and > thought money was to buy toys with, is used nearly every day and hears > as well as anything out there and better than most. even my 75A2 is a > remarkable rx. So yes, the SDR boxes will be around in 50 years. I > have one here and it rests on the floor beside me, holding a stack of > magazines in place. probably should go up and sit beside the Rat > Shack model 3. Bernie W8RPW > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rbethman" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:19 AM > Subject: [AMRadio] OT SDR > > >> The SDR does not have to cost anywhere remotely close to $3500! >> >> A RaspberryPi runs around $65, the Dongle runs from $8 to $14. >> >> The SRD# software is just plain free. >> >> The other part is sold through Hayseed Hamfest, it is the RANverter. >> It costs $45.90 >> >> The whopping total of $125. >> >> The RANverter is a kit, and there are NO surface Mount Components >> whatsoever! >> >> RaspberryPI is its own computer, uses the ARM7 processor, the very >> same one in Android phones, it is a quad core, it is just a hair >> bigger than a pack of cigarettes. It has a CATV jack, 4 USB ports, >> HDMI for monitors, or you can convert it to analog in lieu of digital >> video output. The cores run at 900MHz. >> >> Those folks that go out and spend $3500 are insane! >> >> Get into contact with W9RAN, Robert Nickels. >> >> He can go through the entire setup with you. He has been working >> with the man that writes the software. So Robert is well up on the >> entire setup. >> >> I've been playing around with it for around 6 or so months. >> >> Regards, Bob - N0DGN From k4kyv at charter.net Mon Oct 12 17:37:51 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:37:51 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] In Defence of Old Buzzard Transmissions In-Reply-To: References: <000e01d10396$6e59c650$4b0d52f0$@charter.net> <001601d104c5$e4ae4670$ae0ad350$@charter.net> Message-ID: <000701d10536$3f257f90$bd707eb0$@charter.net> > I spent an entire day a few years ago experimenting with relays to come up with a method that would best isolate the rx on transmit and protect the input coil. The way I do it now is almost too good because I can't hear the 122 VFO for spotting on the CW rig. On the 3-400 rig I spot with both the vfo and driver >Rob K5UJ I picked up a shoe box full of little coaxial relays at Dayton one year. They work exactly like miniature Dow Keys, but have 24 vdc coils and use BNC connectors. I use them to select which transmitter the VFO feeds to, and with the receiver, to select what feeds into the antenna terminal. On receive it selects whatever receiving antenna I have selected with a rotary switch. On transmit, it completely disconnects the antenna input terminal from anything else and, to boot, grounds it. I can hear my VFO well enough for spotting, but sometimes I have to switch to a different receiving antenna to get enough signal. I have a separate spotting switch, so I don't have to switch to transmit to hear the VFO. Lately I have been using my 3885 kc crystal for 75 while keeping the VFO connected to the Gates for 160. Don --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From fhh11 at columbia.edu Mon Oct 12 23:53:39 2015 From: fhh11 at columbia.edu (Floyd Hollister) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 23:53:39 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] In Defence of Old Buzzard Transmissions In-Reply-To: <000701d10536$3f257f90$bd707eb0$@charter.net> References: <000e01d10396$6e59c650$4b0d52f0$@charter.net> <001601d104c5$e4ae4670$ae0ad350$@charter.net> <000701d10536$3f257f90$bd707eb0$@charter.net> Message-ID: <011801d1056a$bf7b82f0$3e7288d0$@edu> Don, Thanks for the info on the coax relays I am about to build a sequencer for my Gates BC500G which I hope to get on the air this winter. What model Gates are you using? I am looking for a replacement bias transformer for my BC500G. Mine burned out and is internally shorted. It is Gates P/N 472-0453-000. I have worked out a scheme to make the rig function using two back to back control transformers, but I would like to keep it as it was manufactured, hence my need for the transformer. Do you have any idea where to look for one? I've tried eHam.net and eBay with no suc. When you switch from R to T do you activate the Oscillator, RF and AF drivers at the same time as you apply the HV to the 833 Modulators and RF finals or just a few milliseconds earlier? I am really enjoying bringing this rig back to life. Floyd, K2DUV -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Donald Chester Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 5:38 PM To: 'Rob Atkinson' Cc: 'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service' Subject: Re: [AMRadio] In Defence of Old Buzzard Transmissions > I spent an entire day a few years ago experimenting with relays to > come up with a method that would best isolate the rx on transmit and protect the input coil. The way I do it now is almost too good because I can't hear the 122 VFO for spotting on the CW rig. On the 3-400 rig I spot with both the vfo and driver >Rob K5UJ I picked up a shoe box full of little coaxial relays at Dayton one year. They work exactly like miniature Dow Keys, but have 24 vdc coils and use BNC connectors. I use them to select which transmitter the VFO feeds to, and with the receiver, to select what feeds into the antenna terminal. On receive it selects whatever receiving antenna I have selected with a rotary switch. On transmit, it completely disconnects the antenna input terminal from anything else and, to boot, grounds it. I can hear my VFO well enough for spotting, but sometimes I have to switch to a different receiving antenna to get enough signal. I have a separate spotting switch, so I don't have to switch to transmit to hear the VFO. Lately I have been using my 3885 kc crystal for 75 while keeping the VFO connected to the Gates for 160. Don --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to fhh11 at columbia.edu From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 10:45:38 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:45:38 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] ARRL defends hams freedom to use modified non-ham gear on the ham bands Message-ID: This may be worth watching if you run a broadcast rig on the ham bands: http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-asks-fcc-to-clarify-that-hams-may-modify-non-amateur-gear-for-amateur-use No mention of non-ham HF gear, but FCC certainly has the potential to broadly word some rule change with unintended consequences. Rob K5UJ From k4kyv at charter.net Wed Oct 14 12:13:58 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:13:58 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] ARRL defends hams freedom to use modified non-ham gear on the ham bands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000a01d1069b$554703f0$ffd50bd0$@charter.net> -----Original Message----- This may be worth watching if you run a broadcast rig on the ham bands: http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-asks-fcc-to-clarify-that-hams-may-modify-non-a mateur-gear-for-amateur-use No mention of non-ham HF gear, but FCC certainly has the potential to broadly word some rule change with unintended consequences. Rob K5UJ ______________________________________________________________ OK, so now they want to impose a requirement to make non-amateur gear un-modifiable, to preclude it from amateur use, but in the same sweep further loosen up the already inadequate enforcement of Part 15 and Part 18 regulations that supposedly limit RFI spewed from consumer electronics and other junk? A couple of weeks ago I overheard a conversation between two seasoned AMers who should know better, speculating that it might be illegal for a ham to modify a piece of commercially build amateur equipment that had FCC type acceptance, since you can't legally modify a type-accepted transceiver for the CB service. The foot got into the door years ago when commercially built amateur radio amplifiers were included in the FCC's type acceptance/certification program. Outside the USA, in both Canada and UK, entry-level "foundation" licensees are allowed to use only commercially-built equipment; homebrewing is prohibited until one upgrades to a full licence. At present, hams are allowed to homebrew a transmitter from scratch. It would be difficult to legally distinguish a piece of modified commercial gear from a homebrew rig, but remember the FCC ignored the laws of physics to impose a bogus power limit. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 13:15:42 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:15:42 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] ARRL defends hams freedom to use modified non-ham gear on the ham bands In-Reply-To: <000a01d1069b$554703f0$ffd50bd0$@charter.net> References: <000a01d1069b$554703f0$ffd50bd0$@charter.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Donald Chester wrote: > > > At present, hams are allowed to homebrew a transmitter from scratch. It > would be difficult to legally distinguish a piece of modified commercial > gear from a homebrew rig, but remember the FCC ignored the laws of physics > to impose a bogus power limit. > Let's not forget they ignored physics when they allowed BPL also. While nothing has been proposed regarding broadcast rigs as far as I know, I must say if I were running a broadcast rig on the ham bands, they'd have to come take it away to get me to stop. The great irony is that broadcast rigs are MUCH BETTER in almost every way--in terms of meeting audio response and fidelity and spurious emission requirements, than most if not all HAM RIGS made and sold. Ham transmitters have to meet watered down technical requirements compared to commercial/professional equipment. The ham bands would probably be a lot cleaner if every ham moved a non-ham rig into the ham bands and ran it! 73 Rob K5UJ From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 15:20:26 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:20:26 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Gates 250 GY Leland MS Message-ID: >From broadcast email list: "Folks, there is a gorgeous old Gates BC-250GY sitting in my way at a transmitter site in Leland, MS, near Greenville. All the tubes are in it, and it doesn't look mangled at all. I need it gone. It could easily be put into a museum, it's that nice. On 1580 KHz. Someone come get it. Contact me off-list." email: tech at michaelpatton.com Rob K5UJ From W2xj at w2xj.net Wed Oct 14 17:29:24 2015 From: W2xj at w2xj.net (W2XJ) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:29:24 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Fwd: [BC] Gates BC-250GY available References: <561E89FF.6040008@michaelpatton.com> Message-ID: <208461E7-9665-40EE-8E7F-0717F173F241@w2xj.net> Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: > From: Michael Patton > Date: October 14, 2015 at 12:59:43 PM EDT > To: "Broadcasters' Mailing List" > Subject: [BC] Gates BC-250GY available > Reply-To: The BROADCAST eList > > Folks, there is a gorgeous old Gates BC-250GY sitting in my way at a > transmitter site in Leland, MS, near Greenville. All the tubes are in > it, and it doesn't look mangled at all. I need it gone. It could > easily be put into a museum, it's that nice. On 1580 kHz. > > Someone, come and get it. Contact me off-list. > > -- > > > > ~_____________________________________________________________~ > How's your Streaming Radio Performance? Find out with the Inovonics 610 - Internet Radio Monitor > http://www.inovonicsbroadcast.com/model/610 > From k5xu at comcast.net Wed Oct 14 17:59:56 2015 From: k5xu at comcast.net (Mike Duke, K5XU) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:59:56 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Gates 250 GY Leland MS Message-ID: If Michael Patton says it is clean, you can believe him. I've known him since the mid 70's. This would make somebody a fine transmitter for 160 or 80 meters. Sure hope it finds a good home in a complete state of being. Original message: >> From broadcast email list: > "Folks, there is a gorgeous old Gates BC-250GY sitting in my way at a > transmitter site in Leland, MS, near Greenville. All the tubes are in > it, and it doesn't look mangled at all. I need it gone. It could > easily be put into a museum, it's that nice. On 1580 KHz. Someone > come get it. Contact me off-list." > email: > tech at michaelpatton.com > Rob > K5UJ > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to k5xu at comcast.net -- Mike Duke, K5XU From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 14:02:46 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:02:46 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Gates 250 GY Leland MS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Gates 250GY is reported spoken for. (If the lucky new owner is a member of this list, it would be interesting to know who you are.) 73 Rob K5UJ On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > From broadcast email list: > > "Folks, there is a gorgeous old Gates BC-250GY sitting in my way at a > transmitter site in Leland, MS, near Greenville. All the tubes are in > it, and it doesn't look mangled at all. I need it gone. It could > easily be put into a museum, it's that nice. On 1580 KHz. Someone > come get it. Contact me off-list." > > email: > tech at michaelpatton.com > > Rob > K5UJ From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 15 14:40:34 2015 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:40:34 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Cart and horse, chicken and egg, etc. Message-ID: <1444934434.91651.YahooMailBasic@web160604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I have a love hate relationship with the ARRL, even though I've been a member for 46 years. Have the construction articles basically dried up except for J pole antennas and computer interfaces on the low end to extremely high end projects that probably nobody will duplicate, because building ham gear of actual use will conflict with the commercial stuff? Or do people just have zero interest in building a piece of gear they can receive or transmit with that doesn't have all the feature of the latest $10K buck rigs? These questions come up because a buddy gave me a bunch of CQ's and QST's from the 50's and for the most part, every issue has something interesting to build. Also, you would think with all the hoopla over recycling and save the planet stuff, QST and bunch of other mags that used to be in the 6 1/2 X 9 1/2 size would be a envirowhackos cause of the day to bring back. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From k4kyv at charter.net Thu Oct 15 15:46:00 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:46:00 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Cart and horse, chicken and egg, etc. In-Reply-To: <1444934434.91651.YahooMailBasic@web160604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1444934434.91651.YahooMailBasic@web160604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001d10782$1e69ad00$5b3d0700$@charter.net> -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of CL in NC via AMRadio I have a love hate relationship with the ARRL, even though I've been a member for 46 years. Have the construction articles basically dried up except for J pole antennas and computer interfaces on the low end to extremely high end projects that probably nobody will duplicate, because building ham gear of actual use will conflict with the commercial stuff? Or do people just have zero interest in building a piece of gear they can receive or transmit with that doesn't have all the feature of the latest $10K buck rigs? These questions come up because a buddy gave me a bunch of CQ's and QST's from the 50's and for the most part, every issue has something interesting to build. Also, you would think with all the hoopla over recycling and save the planet stuff, QST and bunch of other mags that used to be in the 6 1/2 X 9 1/2 size would be a envirowhackos cause of the day to bring back. Charlie, W4MEC in NC ______________________________________________________________ The story I heard is that a small but vocal core of QST readers were constantly whinging and whining to the ARRL that the articles in QST were "too technical", so sometime about 1980, they created this new publication, called QEX, that costs extra even if you are already a paid member, where they now pigeon-hole the in-depth technical articles, leaving QST to be filled with "human interest" and other fluff and drivel. Besides the J-pole antenna, you might find construction articles on the order of how to build a novelty one-transistor QRP CW transmitter in a cat-food or Altoid tin, or else an LED-powered "On The Air" sign, but very few useful construction articles unless they have something to do with incorporating a computer into your station. The people who REALLY got ripped off on that deal are those who, back when they first started the program in the 1960s as I recall, took out Life Membership with the understanding that they would have access to good technical and construction articles for the rest of their life, and then ended up having to take out an additional subscription to another publication to maintain access to them. As for the physical size, nearly all other magazines went to that size about the same time QST did. I have never heard any real explanation why, or what was supposed to be the advantage of the larger size. Maybe the Post Office gave a better bulk rate to the standard size. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From manualman at juno.com Thu Oct 15 15:56:57 2015 From: manualman at juno.com (manualman at juno.com) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:56:57 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Cart and horse, chicken and egg, etc. Message-ID: Obviously, back in the "good old days" there was tons and tons of surplus parts available that could be got for cheap. A trip to the local TV/Radio repair shop could gather several old TV chassis with lots of parts. Today, the surplus parts market is gone. Parts cost money and require time and energy to procure. Today's kids have school and lots of other activities and parents may be doing multiple jobs just to pay the bills. That leaves the "well off" and the seniors. The "well off" don't need to build things. If they need or want something, they just go buy it. The seniors on the other hand who have built stuff in the past and enjoyed it, now have to deal with poor eyesight, shaky hands, and other physical or mental anomalies that may prohibit them from building stuff. Then there are those who just enjoy repair and restoration of older equipment and don't want to build stuff from scratch. The magazines are just adjusting to the times. Pete, wa2cwa On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:40:34 -0700 CL in NC via AMRadio writes: > I have a love hate relationship with the ARRL, even though I've been > a member for 46 years. Have the construction articles basically > dried up except for J pole antennas and computer interfaces on the > low end to extremely high end projects that probably nobody will > duplicate, because building ham gear of actual use will conflict > with the commercial stuff? Or do people just have zero interest in > building a piece of gear they can receive or transmit with that > doesn't have all the feature of the latest $10K buck rigs? These > questions come up because a buddy gave me a bunch of CQ's and QST's > from the 50's and for the most part, every issue has something > interesting to build. Also, you would think with all the hoopla > over recycling and save the planet stuff, QST and bunch of other > mags that used to be in the 6 1/2 X 9 1/2 size would be a > envirowhackos cause of the day to bring back. > > Charlie, W4MEC in NC From manualman at juno.com Thu Oct 15 16:23:13 2015 From: manualman at juno.com (manualman at juno.com) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:23:13 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Cart and horse, chicken and egg, etc. Message-ID: My comments below preceded by ***: On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:46:00 -0500 "Donald Chester" writes: >The story I heard is that a small but vocal core of QST readers were constantly whinging and whining to the ARRL that the articles in QST were "too technical", so sometime about 1980, they >created this new publication, called QEX, that costs extra even if you are already a paid member, where they now pigeon-hole the in-depth technical articles, leaving QST to be filled with "human >interest" and other fluff and drivel. Besides the J-pole antenna, you might find construction articles on the order of how to build a novelty one-transistor QRP CW transmitter in a cat-food or Altoid >tin, or else an LED-powered "On The Air" sign, but very few useful construction articles unless they have something to do with incorporating a computer into your station. *** By 1980, amateur radio interests were becoming more varied from the traditional AM, CW, SSB operation. Since highly technical and construction articles generally appeal to lesser amounts of members and generally require more pages, which can add substantial printing and material costs to the magazine, I believe is was of an economical decision to move the highly technical/construction articles to a separate magazine. >The people who REALLY got ripped off on that deal are those who, back when they first started the program in the 1960s as I recall, took out Life Membership with the understanding that they would >have access to good technical and construction articles for the rest of their life, and then ended up having to take out an additional subscription to another publication to maintain access to them. *** Never heard of read of that understanding. >As for the physical size, nearly all other magazines went to that size about the same time QST did. I have never heard any real explanation why, or what was supposed to be the advantage of the >larger size. Maybe the Post Office gave a better bulk rate to the standard size. *** I believe you are correct. USPS made changes to their bulk magazine size rates plus paper manufacturers were increasing costs for that size type of paper, and I believe some of the newer printing machines weren't designed and/or additional cost setup for the mass printing of the smaller paper size. It was an economical descision. From rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 15 17:57:17 2015 From: rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com (C.L. Mitchell) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:57:17 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Cart and horse, chicken and egg, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Agree that it was an economic decision. I vaguely remember the explanation given to make QST larger size was a stated plus, apparently at the time, the cost of the paper was cheaper in the larger size. I remember thinking that, in high school, we used to read QST in study hall because it fit nicely inside a textbook and wondering how those there at the time were going to do it. Mitch K9PNP > To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:23:13 -0400 > From: manualman at juno.com > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Cart and horse, chicken and egg, etc. > > On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:46:00 -0500 "Donald Chester" > writes: > > >As for the physical size, nearly all other magazines went to that size > about the same time QST did. I have never heard any real explanation > why, or what was supposed to be the advantage of the >larger size. Maybe > the Post Office gave a better bulk rate to the standard size. > > *** I believe you are correct. USPS made changes to their bulk magazine > size rates plus paper manufacturers were increasing costs for that size > type of paper, and I believe some of the newer printing machines weren't > designed and/or additional cost setup for the mass printing of the > smaller paper size. It was an economical descision. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 18:36:17 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:36:17 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Cart and horse, chicken and egg, etc. In-Reply-To: <1444934434.91651.YahooMailBasic@web160604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1444934434.91651.YahooMailBasic@web160604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I guess it is a combination of things. First, they have to have hams submitting articles. No submissions, no articles. But in case you don't know, the QST editorial staff is J-school types now, not technical types. ARRL went to what are supposedly professional magazine writers instead of engineers at some point in the past. Oh, they have technical people, a couple at least like Joel Hallas and Ward Silver but what they do seems to mostly be Q&A columns. Last time they hired someone in editorial, I forget her name now, they published her credentials and it was all Journalism type education and nothing technical. This is probably why they run these occasional bloopers, like the article on modifying an Ameritron leenyar a year or two ago that advised wadding a lot of wire into the cabinet to use as a voltage drop for the filaments to the tubes. Another problem is that anything that seems seriously technical winds up in QEX. See, content that is challenging, alienates the consumer electronics hams, so it has to be put in QEX instead. But they do run some occasional technical pieces, just not all that often. Remember Lew McCoy, Doug DeMaw, George Grammer, Ed Tilton, etc.? Those were the days when the editorial staff was all technical guys. Every issue had at least two good articles on building. Now there will be maybe one article every year or two that involves tubes and h.v. When that happens, the article is plastered with hand wringing warnings about high voltage and RF Exposure (gasp). I know guys who are building from scratch doing all the metal work and so on, and they are my age or younger and either aren't writers, or don't have the time. Seems like the people I know who are building, barely have time to build, let alone write. To be fair, CQ is about as bad. CL, do you subscribe to Electric Radio? Smaller size, articles about tube gear and building....might be right up your alley. 73 Rob K5UJ On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 1:40 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > I have a love hate relationship with the ARRL, even though I've been a member for 46 years. Have the construction articles basically dried up except for J pole antennas and computer interfaces on the low end to extremely high end projects that probably nobody will duplicate, because building ham gear of actual use will conflict with the commercial stuff? Or do people just have zero interest in building a piece of gear they can receive or transmit with that doesn't have all the feature of the latest $10K buck rigs? These questions come up because a buddy gave me a bunch of CQ's and QST's from the 50's and for the most part, every issue has something interesting to build. Also, you would think with all the hoopla over recycling and save the planet stuff, QST and bunch of other mags that used to be in the 6 1/2 X 9 1/2 size would be a envirowhackos cause of the day to bring back. From k4kyv at charter.net Fri Oct 16 12:16:17 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:16:17 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Cart and horse, chicken and egg, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001501d1082d$fc7d5dc0$f5781940$@charter.net> > The people who REALLY got ripped off on that deal are those who, back when they first started the program in the 1960s as I recall, took out Life Membership with the understanding that they would have access to good technical and construction articles for the rest of their life, and then ended up having to take out an additional subscription to another publication to maintain access to them. > *** Never heard of read of that understanding. It's not rocket science; you shouldn't have to read anything to figure that out. It would have certainly been my case. Problem was, back when I was young enough that Life Membership would have been a bargain, I couldn't afford it. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 16 15:19:15 2015 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:19:15 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Resistor sale? Message-ID: <1445023155.63113.YahooMailBasic@web160604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Was needing some parts for a refurb project that I didn't have on hand, and noticed the resistors seems to be really cheap on the Newark site. Standard value 1/2 watt units going for pennies in single unit quantities. Maybe they are getting out of the market for stuff like this, but might be a good time to stock up. Don't know where they get their descriptors but they are under 'Passive components', 'resistors', 'through hole'. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From rbethman at comcast.net Fri Oct 16 16:19:54 2015 From: rbethman at comcast.net (rbethman) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:19:54 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Resistor sale? In-Reply-To: <1445023155.63113.YahooMailBasic@web160604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1445023155.63113.YahooMailBasic@web160604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56215BEA.1060300@comcast.net> The thing you need to check carefully is whether they are metalized film or carbon composition. It does make a difference depending on the circuits they get placed in. I already have a large stock of metalized film. However, when going through my HRO-50 and replacing grid resistors, I ordered from Mouser and ordered all carbon composition. I have indeed had issues with metalized film. They indeed DO have an inductive element to them. My $0.02 Worth, Regards, Bob - N0DGN On 10/16/2015 3:19 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > Was needing some parts for a refurb project that I didn't have on hand, and noticed the resistors seems to be really cheap on the Newark site. Standard value 1/2 watt units going for pennies in single unit quantities. Maybe they are getting out of the market for stuff like this, but might be a good time to stock up. Don't know where they get their descriptors but they are under 'Passive components', 'resistors', 'through hole'. > > Charlie, W4MEC in NC From johnmb at nc.rr.com Fri Oct 16 18:59:43 2015 From: johnmb at nc.rr.com (john) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 18:59:43 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] ARRL defends hams freedom to use modified non-ham gear on the ham bands Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20151016185716.051c7790@pop-server.nc.rr.com> I suppose this falls into the category of it's easier and less risky to solve a non-problem, than to work on something politically and technically difficult...such as actually managing the spectrum. Ignore them. Maybe they'll go away. John K5MO "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From ars.w5omr at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 21:20:44 2015 From: ars.w5omr at gmail.com (ARS W5OMR) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 20:20:44 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] W5KGZ In-Reply-To: <5612AE93.9070704@gmail.com> References: <5612AE93.9070704@gmail.com> Message-ID: W5JO de W5OMR Talked with Perry/W5KGZ this morning on the air. Alive and well and hopes to be on good ol' Yay yem, soon. From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 10:43:22 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:43:22 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] W1BB on intentional QRM Message-ID: Picked this up on the 160 meter reflector. Stew Perry 40 years ago on deliberate QRM. the part about 160 being primarily gov't service band is out of date but the rest you can pretty much substitute AM for "160" and have a good way to operate. W1BB>> GENTLEMENT BAND!!??? ---Shall stress the importance of keeping this UNIQUE band "The GENTLEMEN! Band", as its reputation has been for so many years, just that ?? We're having sum "growing pains" with big influx of New-Comers, who are not yet thoroughly steeped, (and maybe never will be), in the tradition of the band, or cognizant of the advantages to themselves, and to ALL, to keep it so!! SEEMS that each one of us who enjoys these unique advantages, and the thrill of 160, should want to, individually, help to keep it this way -- by contributing all the "input" in the direction we are in - by welcoming, educating, befriending, exhibiting a good example, and Wining the same support from these new-Comers. Meanwhile being sure of our own motives, and the example we give is correct and right - to acknowledge our own mistakes, and not make them twice. As "Gentlemen" of 160, shouldn't we try to MINIMIZE the bickering between CW/PHONE, and to find ways to cooperate with each other in eliminating friction and QRM??? By meticulously RESPECTING the "Gentlemen's Agreement" that 1800-10 would be CW --1810-25/SSB --1825-30 the "DX Window" 1830-1850/SSB and CW. Seems like a really Gud set-up, especially for phone., since all other bands do not have an exclusive phone segment!!! BUT we must remember that NO-ONE has any "LEGAL" requirement to respect these Fys - this "Gents" partitioning, because the "status" of the band --- it is really NOT an Amateur Band at all!!! It is a Govt/Services (USCG/LORAN) band, wherein we Amateurs have the PRIVILEGE only of operating there, IF we cause no QRM to the Govt Services. For this reason it cannot be, and is not legally partitioned into PHONE/CW segments. SO that, our only hope of "order" is in this so called "Gentlemen's Agreement SOOOooo.! one MUST NOT tell either CW,AM,SSB stns to "get the H....out of there". In the first place, it is the wrong approach anyway! Secondly, each one had as much RIGHT to be ANYWHERE he wish' as anyone else. It is a problem of educating to the advantages and winning everyone's RESPECT for these frequencies! -- -- My experience over many years, is that 99% of the 160m men are real good guys, ready & willing to cooperate, for the good of all, IF they are treated fairly and with RESPECT. We've run across only a few selfish, cantankerous and sour individuals, who insist on their "Rights", regardless of how much it hurts the other 99% --- One must exercise a LOT of restraint, patience, perseverance when this happens, not to be "Touchy", or over sensitive, with these QRMers, understanding that outside of the two or three "stinkers", the .problem in mostly through ignorance carelessness, and not intentional. We have to CONTINUALLY educate and help them and each other. REGARDING the two or three "Stinkers", the INTENTIONAL QRMers, with their strings of dots/dashes on Fy, swishes, modulated noises intentionally calling CQ on DX/Fys, In Window, etc (See-QST/MAR p9, "Malicious QRM") Even here my experience is that "patience has its reward". The BEST WAY to handle them is TO PAY NO ATTENTION WHATSOEVER NOT EVEN MENTION it or them over the air. Me while, not accomplishing their mission of causing trouble, annoying, or "Stirring Up A Hornets Nest' they get tired and go away. -- The WORST thing to do is to TAKE NOTICE of them, talk about them, call them names, retaliate, etc - this is JUST what they are striving for To make acknowledgement of the trouble they are causing, only makes a bad matter worse (This applies only to the INTENTIONAL QRMers) (Others, it is helpful to acknowledge and try to help.) One of those "Stinkers" on the West Coast has been caught and punished severely. There'll be others surely, as we perfect means of detection and "coping". Additionally, "Stinkerism" has its own reward!! Many New-Comers to 160 are heard to say what a difference and pleasure it is to operate on 160, compared to HF bands. Let's keep it that way!! We can, with patience, perseverance, tact and understanding. OK?? Comments?? << 73 Rob K5UJ From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 11:02:46 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:02:46 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] WRMI Message-ID: Scott Fybush covers shortwave broadcast station WRMI in Florida in this week's Site of the Week feature. What a strapping setup. http://www.fybush.com/site-20151023/ Rob K5UJ From jcandela at prodigy.net Fri Oct 23 13:02:16 2015 From: jcandela at prodigy.net (Jim Candela) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 12:02:16 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] I'm Back! Message-ID: <562A6818.5080503@prodigy.net> I had to drop out a few years ago since emails sent to my address were bouncing back. My choices were to drop out, or get an email address that was different. I chose to drop out. My Central Electronics reflector account also self terminated. So last weekend I tried to re-register on both accounts. So far no CE activity, but the AM reflector seems to be prospering. I still have the same email address. :-) I look forward to some of the chatter here.... JIm Wd5JKO From ne1s at securespeed.us Fri Oct 23 13:08:52 2015 From: ne1s at securespeed.us (Larry Szendrei) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 13:08:52 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] I'm Back! In-Reply-To: <562A6818.5080503@prodigy.net> References: <562A6818.5080503@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <562A69A4.3020909@securespeed.us> Welcome back, Jim! 73, -Larry/NE1S On 10/23/15 1:02 PM, Jim Candela wrote: > > I had to drop out a few years ago From ars.w5omr at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 13:13:47 2015 From: ars.w5omr at gmail.com (Geoff) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 12:13:47 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] I'm Back! In-Reply-To: <562A6818.5080503@prodigy.net> References: <562A6818.5080503@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <562A6ACB.1060600@gmail.com> On 10/23/2015 12:02 PM, Jim Candela wrote: > > I look forward to some of the chatter here.... Was good seeing you in Belton at the hamfest earlier this month, Jim. Looking forward to your input here. 73 = Best Regards, -Geoff/W5OMR (/5 - Splendiffidy, TX) From w5jo at brightok.net Fri Oct 23 14:05:28 2015 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 13:05:28 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] I'm Back! In-Reply-To: <562A6818.5080503@prodigy.net> References: <562A6818.5080503@prodigy.net> Message-ID: Welcome back Jim, Not too long ago we had a real spate of bouncing email addresses. My suspicion is someone put the server on a spam list. That happens from time to time and is frustrating. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- I had to drop out a few years ago since emails sent to my address were bouncing back. My choices were to drop out, or get an email address that was different. I chose to drop out. My Central Electronics reflector account also self terminated. So last weekend I tried to re-register on both accounts. So far no CE activity, but the AM reflector seems to be prospering. I still have the same email address. :-) I look forward to some of the chatter here.... JIm Wd5JKO Message delivered to w5jo at brightok.net From k4kyv at charter.net Fri Oct 23 16:23:53 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 15:23:53 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! Message-ID: <001001d10dd0$bc6e9f20$354bdd60$@charter.net> First there was the Gotham Vertical. Then the infamous Max-Com automatic antenna matcher. Now, Cushrcaft is in on the action. "R9" vertical. Low angle radiation gives incredible, easy, world-wide low band DX on 75/80m and 40m, plus it covers 30 through 6m with low VSWR on all bands, with broadband matching transformer; no antenna tuner needed. Low profile blends inconspicuously to keep your HOA happy. 31.5 ft tall. Best of all, NO RADIALS NEEDED!!! Only $639. Just plug in your plastic radio and talk, talk, talk! See November, 2015 QST, page 2. Amazing that hams (or maybe I should say HAMs) swallow that crapola. 31.5 ft is only an eighth wavelength on 75/80m. The base impedance of a 1/8 wavelength vertical is about 12 ohms. No matter how much gimmickry such as stubs, loading coils, toroidal transformers and porcupine spikes are added, that thing will basically be a dummy load unless it is used with a SUBSTANTAL radial ground system. A couple of 8' ground rods won't cut it. I had always considered Cushcraft, which has been in the antenna business for decades, a reputable outfit, but this makes me wonder. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From sndtubes at vacuumtubes.com Fri Oct 23 16:30:21 2015 From: sndtubes at vacuumtubes.com (Michael Marx) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 15:30:21 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! Message-ID: Um, MFJ. ?Nuff said Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note? 4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Donald Chester Date: 10/23/2015 3:23 PM (GMT-06:00) To: 'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service' Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! First there was the Gotham Vertical.? Then the infamous Max-Com automatic antenna matcher.? Now, Cushrcaft is in on the action. "R9" vertical.? Low angle radiation gives incredible, easy, world-wide low band DX on 75/80m and 40m, plus it covers 30 through 6m with low VSWR on all bands, with broadband matching transformer; no antenna tuner needed. Low profile blends inconspicuously to keep your HOA happy.? 31.5 ft tall.? Best of all, NO RADIALS NEEDED!!! Only $639. Just plug in your plastic radio and talk, talk, talk! See November, 2015 QST, page 2. Amazing that hams (or maybe I should say HAMs) swallow that crapola.? 31.5 ft is only an eighth wavelength on 75/80m. The base impedance of a 1/8 wavelength vertical is about 12 ohms. No matter how much gimmickry such as stubs, loading coils, toroidal transformers and porcupine spikes are added, that thing will basically be a dummy load unless it is used with a SUBSTANTAL radial ground system.? A couple of 8' ground rods won't cut it. I had always considered Cushcraft, which has been in the antenna business for decades, a reputable outfit, but this makes me wonder. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to sndtubes at vacuumtubes.com From ka9p at aol.com Fri Oct 23 16:34:18 2015 From: ka9p at aol.com (Scott McDonald) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 15:34:18 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! In-Reply-To: <001001d10dd0$bc6e9f20$354bdd60$@charter.net> References: <001001d10dd0$bc6e9f20$354bdd60$@charter.net> Message-ID: <687030DA-62D2-4CEF-A6A0-2656C4A026C7@aol.com> I think there is more than a bit of irony involved here when you make those statements in a magazine that I think still refuses to accept gain numbers because of their unreliability.... 73 Scott ka9p Make something good happen! > On Oct 23, 2015, at 3:23 PM, Donald Chester wrote: > > > First there was the Gotham Vertical. Then the infamous Max-Com automatic > antenna matcher. Now, Cushrcaft is in on the action. > > "R9" vertical. Low angle radiation gives incredible, easy, world-wide low > band DX on 75/80m and 40m, plus it covers 30 through 6m with low VSWR on all > bands, with broadband matching transformer; no antenna tuner needed. Low > profile blends inconspicuously to keep your HOA happy. 31.5 ft tall. Best > of all, NO RADIALS NEEDED!!! > > Only $639. Just plug in your plastic radio and talk, talk, talk! > > See November, 2015 QST, page 2. > > Amazing that hams (or maybe I should say HAMs) swallow that crapola. 31.5 > ft is only an eighth wavelength on 75/80m. The base impedance of a 1/8 > wavelength vertical is about 12 ohms. No matter how much gimmickry such as > stubs, loading coils, toroidal transformers and porcupine spikes are added, > that thing will basically be a dummy load unless it is used with a > SUBSTANTAL radial ground system. A couple of 8' ground rods won't cut it. > > I had always considered Cushcraft, which has been in the antenna business > for decades, a reputable outfit, but this makes me wonder. > > > Don k4kyv > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ka9p at aol.com From bguyger at yahoo.com Fri Oct 23 16:41:13 2015 From: bguyger at yahoo.com (Bill Guyger) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 20:41:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! In-Reply-To: <001001d10dd0$bc6e9f20$354bdd60$@charter.net> References: <001001d10dd0$bc6e9f20$354bdd60$@charter.net> Message-ID: <1402323685.2105207.1445632873086.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> To quote Emerson Lake and Palmer "Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends"............... Bill AD5OL ? From: Donald Chester To: 'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service' Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 3:23 PM Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! First there was the Gotham Vertical.? Then the infamous Max-Com automatic antenna matcher.? Now, Cushrcaft is in on the action. "R9" vertical.? Low angle radiation gives incredible, easy, world-wide low band DX on 75/80m and 40m, plus it covers 30 through 6m with low VSWR on all bands, with broadband matching transformer; no antenna tuner needed. Low profile blends inconspicuously to keep your HOA happy.? 31.5 ft tall.? Best of all, NO RADIALS NEEDED!!! Only $639. Just plug in your plastic radio and talk, talk, talk! See November, 2015 QST, page 2. Amazing that hams (or maybe I should say HAMs) swallow that crapola.? 31.5 ft is only an eighth wavelength on 75/80m. The base impedance of a 1/8 wavelength vertical is about 12 ohms. No matter how much gimmickry such as stubs, loading coils, toroidal transformers and porcupine spikes are added, that thing will basically be a dummy load unless it is used with a SUBSTANTAL radial ground system.? A couple of 8' ground rods won't cut it. I had always considered Cushcraft, which has been in the antenna business for decades, a reputable outfit, but this makes me wonder. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com From oldradio at comcast.net Fri Oct 23 16:51:30 2015 From: oldradio at comcast.net (oldradio at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 20:51:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! In-Reply-To: <001001d10dd0$bc6e9f20$354bdd60$@charter.net> References: <001001d10dd0$bc6e9f20$354bdd60$@charter.net> Message-ID: <1848106123.5014511.1445633490135.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Cuscraft has a new owner, a Mississippi company of many products. http://www.mfjenterprises.com/ --------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Chester" To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 4:23:53 PM Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! First there was the Gotham Vertical. Then the infamous Max-Com automatic antenna matcher. Now, Cushrcaft is in on the action. "R9" vertical. Low angle radiation gives incredible, easy, world-wide low band DX on 75/80m and 40m, plus it covers 30 through 6m with low VSWR on all bands, with broadband matching transformer; no antenna tuner needed. Low profile blends inconspicuously to keep your HOA happy. 31.5 ft tall. Best of all, NO RADIALS NEEDED!!! Only $639. Just plug in your plastic radio and talk, talk, talk! See November, 2015 QST, page 2. Amazing that hams (or maybe I should say HAMs) swallow that crapola. 31.5 ft is only an eighth wavelength on 75/80m. The base impedance of a 1/8 wavelength vertical is about 12 ohms. No matter how much gimmickry such as stubs, loading coils, toroidal transformers and porcupine spikes are added, that thing will basically be a dummy load unless it is used with a SUBSTANTAL radial ground system. A couple of 8' ground rods won't cut it. I had always considered Cushcraft, which has been in the antenna business for decades, a reputable outfit, but this makes me wonder. Don k4kyv From w5jo at brightok.net Fri Oct 23 17:06:34 2015 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 16:06:34 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! In-Reply-To: <001001d10dd0$bc6e9f20$354bdd60$@charter.net> References: <001001d10dd0$bc6e9f20$354bdd60$@charter.net> Message-ID: <8F6BD5CF6CFC436384E2B228662B3B9E@JimPC> In the back of my mind I recall this antenna has been advertised with no radials for a long time. I may be thinking of another, say Butternut or something else, but I recall Cush Craft pushed this particular antenna without radials or with. It seems as if in the fine print it says something like, for better performance add radials. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- 31.5 ft tall. Best of all, NO RADIALS NEEDED!!! Only $639. Just plug in your plastic radio and talk, talk, talk! See November, 2015 QST, page 2. --- From oldradio at comcast.net Fri Oct 23 17:07:23 2015 From: oldradio at comcast.net (oldradio at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 21:07:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] The new QST seems to mean "Quick Short 'Tennas", nothing over 43 feet. In-Reply-To: <1848106123.5014511.1445633490135.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Message-ID: <954650797.5027106.1445634443320.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Every month an other 43' antenna. --------------------------------------- From jcandela at prodigy.net Fri Oct 23 17:06:20 2015 From: jcandela at prodigy.net (Jim Candela) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 21:06:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! In-Reply-To: <1848106123.5014511.1445633490135.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> References: <1848106123.5014511.1445633490135.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1219891521.1950593.1445634380879.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I wonder if the thing is similar to an OCF electrical 1/2 vertical dipole?? On 75m the BW is only 35 Khz suggesting the Q is high. Manual says the base must be at least 10' off the ground. If this thing were a dummy load, the bandwidth would be much broader. The bottom seven 49" "counterpoise" radials might not be radials at all. They are too short to provide much of a ground. The safety labels on each say these are hot as heck when RF is applied. JimWd5JKO On Friday, October 23, 2015 3:51 PM, "oldradio at comcast.net" wrote: Cuscraft has a new owner, a Mississippi company of many products. ? http://www.mfjenterprises.com/ --------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Chester" To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 4:23:53 PM Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed! First there was the Gotham Vertical.? Then the infamous Max-Com automatic antenna matcher.? Now, Cushrcaft is in on the action. "R9" vertical.? Low angle radiation gives incredible, easy, world-wide low band DX on 75/80m and 40m, plus it covers 30 through 6m with low VSWR on all bands, with broadband matching transformer; no antenna tuner needed. Low profile blends inconspicuously to keep your HOA happy.? 31.5 ft tall.? Best of all, NO RADIALS NEEDED!!! Only $639. Just plug in your plastic radio and talk, talk, talk! See November, 2015 QST, page 2. Amazing that hams (or maybe I should say HAMs) swallow that crapola.? 31.5 ft is only an eighth wavelength on 75/80m. The base impedance of a 1/8 wavelength vertical is about 12 ohms. No matter how much gimmickry such as stubs, loading coils, toroidal transformers and porcupine spikes are added, that thing will basically be a dummy load unless it is used with a SUBSTANTAL radial ground system.? A couple of 8' ground rods won't cut it. I had always considered Cushcraft, which has been in the antenna business for decades, a reputable outfit, but this makes me wonder. Don k4kyv ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jcandela at prodigy.net From deswynar at xplornet.ca Fri Oct 23 17:13:14 2015 From: deswynar at xplornet.ca (deswynar at xplornet.ca) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 17:13:14 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] W1BB on intentional QRM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0b9608ad1c2f0e171a64c7d64e29716b@xplornet.ca> Hi Guys, 160-meters ceased having ANY claim to being a so-called "...gentleman's band" shortly after 1.8-MHz appeared with regularity on the band positions of appliance rigs that any idiot could buy with his VISA card, and tune-up a questionable dipole using the internal automated antenna tuner... I can't even BEGIN to detail the many bad experiences that I encountered with specific Hams---whose callsigns shall go unmentioned---on 160, when I took-up CW DX'ing with a homebrewed kilowatt & my 3-element inverted extended "L" phased array some 8 years ago: it's like the place is some sort of private denizen of a privileged few, who resent the invasive presence of any newcomer(s) with a competitive signal, and bask in the adulation of false praise & respect from the sheep-like majority. My topband antennas all came down in the big ice storm of December 2013, and I have NOT been back there---and neither do I miss it, not even in the least. ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ On 2015-10-23 10:43, Rob Atkinson wrote: > Picked this up on the 160 meter reflector. Stew Perry 40 years ago on > deliberate QRM. the part about 160 being primarily gov't service band > is out of date but the rest you can pretty much substitute AM for > "160" and have a good way to operate. > > W1BB>> > GENTLEMENT BAND!!??? ---Shall stress the importance of keeping this UNIQUE > band "The GENTLEMEN! Band", as its reputation has been for so many years, > just that ?? We're having sum "growing pains" with big influx of New-Comers, > who are not yet thoroughly steeped, (and maybe never will be), in the > tradition of the band, or cognizant of the advantages to themselves, and to > ALL, to keep it so!! SEEMS that each one of us who enjoys these unique > advantages, and the thrill of 160, should want to, individually, help to > keep it this way -- by contributing all the "input" in the direction we are > in - by welcoming, educating, befriending, exhibiting a good example, and > Wining the same support from these new-Comers. Meanwhile being sure of our > own motives, and the example we give is correct and right - to acknowledge > our own mistakes, and not make them twice. As "Gentlemen" of 160, shouldn't > we try to MINIMIZE the bickering between CW/PHONE, and to find ways to > cooperate with each other in eliminating friction and QRM??? By meticulously > RESPECTING the "Gentlemen's Agreement" that 1800-10 would be CW > --1810-25/SSB --1825-30 the "DX Window" 1830-1850/SSB and CW. Seems like > a really Gud set-up, especially for phone., since all other bands do not > have an exclusive phone segment!!! BUT we must remember that NO-ONE has any > "LEGAL" requirement to respect these Fys - this "Gents" partitioning, > because the "status" of the band --- it is really NOT an Amateur Band at > all!!! It is a Govt/Services (USCG/LORAN) band, wherein we Amateurs have the > PRIVILEGE only of operating there, IF we cause no QRM to the Govt Services. > For this reason it cannot be, and is not legally partitioned into PHONE/CW > segments. SO that, our only hope of "order" is in this so called > "Gentlemen's Agreement SOOOooo.! one MUST NOT tell either CW,AM,SSB stns to > "get the H....out of there". In the first place, it is the wrong approach > anyway! Secondly, each one had as much RIGHT to be ANYWHERE he wish' as > anyone else. It is a problem of educating to the advantages and winning > everyone's RESPECT for these frequencies! -- -- My experience over many > years, is that 99% of the 160m men are real good guys, ready & willing to > cooperate, for the good of all, IF they are treated fairly and with RESPECT. > We've run across only a few selfish, cantankerous and sour individuals, who > insist on their "Rights", regardless of how much it hurts the other 99% --- > One must exercise a LOT of restraint, patience, perseverance when this > happens, not to be "Touchy", or over sensitive, with these QRMers, > understanding that outside of the two or three "stinkers", the .problem in > mostly through ignorance carelessness, and not intentional. We have to > CONTINUALLY educate and help them and each other. REGARDING the two or three > "Stinkers", the INTENTIONAL QRMers, with their strings of dots/dashes on Fy, > swishes, modulated noises intentionally calling CQ on DX/Fys, In Window, etc > (See-QST/MAR p9, "Malicious QRM") Even here my experience is that "patience > has its reward". The BEST WAY to handle them is TO PAY NO ATTENTION > WHATSOEVER NOT EVEN MENTION it or them over the air. Me while, not > accomplishing their mission of causing trouble, annoying, or "Stirring Up A > Hornets Nest' they get tired and go away. -- The WORST thing to do is to > TAKE NOTICE of them, talk about them, call them names, retaliate, etc - this > is JUST what they are striving for To make acknowledgement of the trouble > they are causing, only makes a bad matter worse (This applies only to the > INTENTIONAL QRMers) (Others, it is helpful to acknowledge and try to help.) > One of those "Stinkers" on the West Coast has been caught and punished > severely. There'll be others surely, as we perfect means of detection and > "coping". Additionally, "Stinkerism" has its own reward!! Many New-Comers to > 160 are heard to say what a difference and pleasure it is to operate on 160, > compared to HF bands. Let's keep it that way!! We can, with patience, > perseverance, tact and understanding. OK?? Comments?? > << > > 73 > Rob > K5UJ > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net [1] > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ [2] > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html [3] > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio [4] > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net [5] > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html [6] > Message delivered to deswynar at xplornet.ca Links: ------ [1] http://www.amfone.net [2] http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ [3] http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html [4] http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio [5] http://www.qsl.net [6] http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 23 18:46:18 2015 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 15:46:18 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed Message-ID: <1445640378.74412.YahooMailBasic@web160603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> OK fellers, you've totally missed the point pf all this amazing stuff. If you talk to somebody who owns any truncated antenna, they will tell you this every time, " I can work every body I hear". That can be across town, or across the state, or the fellow doing all the work in the QSO with stacked 20 meter monobanders at 200 feet running 1.5KW and the worlds best receiver. It's what they never hear which really determines the lack of function, and apparently, ignorance is bliss. The 43 foot vertical has been around for a long time, it is even in the back of a 30's era handbook, and for some reason has made a serious comeback lately. I have had one ground mounted with a radial field and homebrew remote tuner for 40 years in my antenna arsenal, and was confused by the claims for the new ones that came out as 'no tuner needed' or '1:1 balun allows all band coverage'. I asked the DX Engineering guys at Dayton one year how this could be. His answer was simple, to paraphrase, "If their rig with a tuner will match the load coming back on their coax, the modern operator does not care if the SWR on the line is atrocious as long as they can work what they can hear." Charlie, W4MEC in NC From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 19:01:17 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 18:01:17 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] W1BB on intentional QRM In-Reply-To: <0b9608ad1c2f0e171a64c7d64e29716b@xplornet.ca> References: <0b9608ad1c2f0e171a64c7d64e29716b@xplornet.ca> Message-ID: Eddy, No one who operates AM on 160 is trying to work DX. We are just trying to ragchew without the 75 m. congestion. Come back and give it a try but on AM. 73 Rob K5UJ On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 4:13 PM, wrote: > > I can't even BEGIN to detail the many bad experiences that I encountered > with specific Hams---whose callsigns shall go unmentioned---on 160, when I > took-up CW DX'ing with a homebrewed kilowatt & my 3-element inverted > extended "L" phased array some 8 years ago: it's like the place is some sort > of private denizen of a privileged few, who resent the invasive presence of > any newcomer(s) with a competitive signal, and bask in the adulation of > false praise & respect from the sheep-like majority. > > My topband antennas all came down in the big ice storm of December 2013, and > I have NOT been back there---and neither do I miss it, not even in the > least. > > From rbethman at comcast.net Fri Oct 23 19:17:56 2015 From: rbethman at comcast.net (rbethman) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 19:17:56 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Laws of Physics Repealed In-Reply-To: <1445640378.74412.YahooMailBasic@web160603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1445640378.74412.YahooMailBasic@web160603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <562AC024.7000804@comcast.net> I have never used any vertical antennas except for a 2mtr mobile. That one went from a 5/8s Larson to a ball mounted co-linear one. It was the only way to get to the home QTH area from where I worked at the time. I wouldn't have the ability to put up a "real" 160mtr nor 75mtr vertical, and all the necessary ground radials to make an effective antenna. We've seen all the nonsense that is sold to whomever wants to buy it. I haven't seen anyone with a twisted arm going into an emporium nor ordering the same garbage online. The simple line from the Forest Gump Movie, "Stupid is as stupid does.", applies more and more during this time in society. One could use a tower with an insulated base to attempt to make a usable vertical. The same ground radial system is still necessary. Just a plain shame that getting a license doesn't require knowing antennas and having to build your own! That process teaches more than simply laying your money down and walking out the door with something you don't understand squat about. Regards, Bob - N0DGN From k4kyv at charter.net Mon Oct 26 02:31:19 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 01:31:19 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] WARNING: Overload protection is not 100% reliable even when relays are functioning properly Message-ID: <002201d10fb7$ed243560$c76ca020$@charter.net> With both my converted Gates broadcast transmitter and homebrew HF-300 rig, I have experienced the following scenario more than once: some kind of anomaly occurs somewhere in the antenna system, maybe an arc-over at the tuned circuit at the base of the tower, a bug crawls between the plates of an air variable, the antenna falls down or shorts out in high wind, or maybe a corroded connection fails. This throws the system off resonance and de-couples the load from the final, so that manually re-adjusting the main plate tuning control would dip the plate current to near zero, but under the conditions of the malfunction, just enough reactance is thrown into the system to de-tune the final to where it isn't dipped all the way to zero. Thus the final may be detuned from resonance just enough that the plate current remains near normal -- but all the DC input is being dissipated in the plate of the tube with no RF delivered to the output. You could simulate the effect by disconnecting the feed line from the transmitter, dipping the final to minimum plate current, then adjusting the plate tuning away from the resonant dip just far enough to bring the plate current back to its normal value. The tube plates then dissipate well beyond their rated maximum, but the final plate current is not high enough or far enough from normal to kick the overload relay. Under such conditions, the tube(s) may quickly become damaged or destroyed without the overload protection sensing anything abnormal. This has occurred a few times while I was transmitting, but I noticed nothing out of the ordinary until I happened to glance over at the final amplifier plates and saw they were running bright red or orange, or I noticed the monitor scope was displaying no output from the transmitter even though the final plate current meter showed a normal indication. This could easily occur at stations where the transmitter is remotely located away from the operating position and controlled from another room or building, or even right in the shack with transmitters that have no viewing window to allow the operator to see the final tube plate(s). Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 05:21:16 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 04:21:16 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] WARNING: Overload protection is not 100% reliable even when relays are functioning properly In-Reply-To: <002201d10fb7$ed243560$c76ca020$@charter.net> References: <002201d10fb7$ed243560$c76ca020$@charter.net> Message-ID: This is great advice. Another thing to consider is whether or not your final tubes require some amount of forced air cooling. Let's say your input power to the final is 350 watts and you have a 4-400A in the final. It has some small amount of forced air but not much so the rig doesn't make a lot of noise. You might think you are okay in Don's scenario because the tube can dissipate 400 watts. But if the tube doesn't have the cooling it needs to dissipate its rated maximum you may still have seal failures. Rob K5UJ On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:31 AM, Donald Chester wrote: > Thus the final may be detuned from resonance just enough that the plate > current remains near normal -- but all the DC input is being dissipated in > the plate of the tube with no RF delivered to the output. You could > simulate the effect by disconnecting the feed line from the transmitter, > dipping the final to minimum plate current, then adjusting the plate tuning > away from the resonant dip just far enough to bring the plate current back > to its normal value. The tube plates then dissipate well beyond their rated > maximum, but the final plate current is not high enough or far enough from > normal to kick the overload relay. Under such conditions, the tube(s) may > quickly become damaged or destroyed without the overload protection sensing > anything abnormal. This has occurred a few times while I was transmitting, > but I noticed nothing out of the ordinary until I happened to glance over at > the final amplifier plates and saw they were running bright red or orange, > or I noticed the monitor scope was displaying no output from the > transmitter even though the final plate current meter showed a normal > indication. > > This could easily occur at stations where the transmitter is remotely > located away from the operating position and controlled from another room or > building, or even right in the shack with transmitters that have no viewing > window to allow the operator to see the final tube plate(s). > > Don k4kyv From wa1qix at piesky.com Mon Oct 26 08:09:24 2015 From: wa1qix at piesky.com (Steve WA1QIX) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 07:09:24 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] WARNING: Overload protection is not 100% reliable even when relays are functioning properly Message-ID: <201510261101.t9QB1vBU037952@mx1.piesky.com> This is a definite overload scenario, and there really should be a detection element for this condition. In the overload protection system I use for the solid state transmitters, one of the inputs is SWR. This is very easy to detect - I modified an existing SWR meter and fed the forward and reflected power outputs back to the overload shutdown system. A comparator compares the reflected power to the forward power, and if the reflected power is too high, that's an overload and the system shuts down. SWR shutdown is part of virtually every "rice box", and it's not too hard to implement. Regards, Steve At 01:31 AM 10/26/2015, you wrote: >With both my converted Gates broadcast transmitter and homebrew HF-300 rig, >I have experienced the following scenario more than once: some kind of >anomaly occurs somewhere in the antenna system, maybe an arc-over at the >tuned circuit at the base of the tower, a bug crawls between the plates of >an air variable, the antenna falls down or shorts out in high wind, or maybe >a corroded connection fails. This throws the system off resonance and >de-couples the load from the final, so that manually re-adjusting the main >plate tuning control would dip the plate current to near zero, but under >the conditions of the malfunction, just enough reactance is thrown into the >system to de-tune the final to where it isn't dipped all the way to zero. >Thus the final may be detuned from resonance just enough that the plate >current remains near normal -- but all the DC input is being dissipated in >the plate of the tube with no RF delivered to the output. You could >simulate the effect by disconnecting the feed line from the transmitter, >dipping the final to minimum plate current, then adjusting the plate tuning >away from the resonant dip just far enough to bring the plate current back >to its normal value. The tube plates then dissipate well beyond their rated >maximum, but the final plate current is not high enough or far enough from >normal to kick the overload relay. Under such conditions, the tube(s) may >quickly become damaged or destroyed without the overload protection sensing >anything abnormal. This has occurred a few times while I was transmitting, >but I noticed nothing out of the ordinary until I happened to glance over at >the final amplifier plates and saw they were running bright red or orange, >or I noticed the monitor scope was displaying no output from the >transmitter even though the final plate current meter showed a normal >indication. > >This could easily occur at stations where the transmitter is remotely >located away from the operating position and controlled from another room or >building, or even right in the shack with transmitters that have no viewing >window to allow the operator to see the final tube plate(s). > >Don k4kyv > > >--- >This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >______________________________________________________________ >Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >AMRadio mailing list >Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > > > >----- >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 2012.0.2258 / Virus Database: 4365/10377 - Release Date: 10/23/15 From k4kyv at charter.net Mon Oct 26 14:22:55 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] W1BB on intentional QRM In-Reply-To: <0b9608ad1c2f0e171a64c7d64e29716b@xplornet.ca> References: <0b9608ad1c2f0e171a64c7d64e29716b@xplornet.ca> Message-ID: <000001d1101b$557753a0$0065fae0$@charter.net> Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ wrote: > 160-meters ceased having ANY claim to being a so-called > "...gentleman's band" shortly after 1.8-MHz appeared with regularity on the band positions of appliance rigs that any idiot could buy with his VISA card, and tune-up a questionable dipole using the internal automated antenna tuner... Of course, some may find the language offensive, but you have defined to a tee what is meant by the term "plastic radio". No, bakelite knobs and the composition of the insulating material on the hook-up wire have nothing to do with it. Furthermore, you just verified another dimension to the term: "plastic" as in VISA (hi). In any case, I applaud your desire to keep an almost forgotten style of ham radio alive for anyone including yourself who homebrews gear. But watch out, even the term "homebrew" is being nudged out of ham radio jargon, in favour of "DYI". > I can't even BEGIN to detail the many bad experiences that I > encountered with specific Hams---whose callsigns shall go > unmentioned---on 160, when I took-up CW DX'ing with a homebrewed kilowatt & my 3-element inverted extended "L" phased array some 8 years ago: it's like the place is some sort of private denizen of a privileged few, who resent the invasive presence of any newcomer(s) with a competitive signal, and bask in the adulation of false praise & respect from the sheep-like majority. Don't let them intimidate you. Far too many hams tuck their tails and run at the first sign of intentional QRM or harassment, saying they "don't want to get mixed up in any over-the-air squabbles. The best technique for dealing with that kind of situation is "Strap and Ignore". > My topband antennas all came down in the big ice storm of December 2013, and I have NOT been back there---and neither do I miss it, not even in the least. The last thing I'll ever do is give anyone the opportunity to gloat about running me off the air (see previous comment above). The one way to assure my presence on a band or on a frequency is to try to drive me away after I was already in an established QSO. Actually, 160m has one saving grace in the difficulty of putting up an effective antenna, although strapping signals seem to come out of the woodwork whenever there is a contest. A large number of hams appear to do all the excruciating work to get an effective signal on Topband, only to use it two or three weekends a year. Oh well, I find that baffling but to each his own; almost any activity on the band is to be applauded these days since there seems to be a dearth of signals, AM and otherwise. They always have tended to roll up the sidewalks on 160 after about 9 PM, but this season I have noticed several quiet, winter-like Friday and Saturday evenings with only a small handful of signals on the entire band, and I called CQ till I was blue in the face but got no response. Just a few years ago the band would have been so crammed with signals that one would have had to hunt for a clear spot to transmit. Get more fiyah in the wiyah, And get the wiyah highyah! Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From k4kyv at charter.net Mon Oct 26 14:38:24 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:38:24 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] WARNING: Overload protection is not 100% reliable even when relays are functioning properly In-Reply-To: <201510261101.t9QB1vBU037952@mx1.piesky.com> References: <201510261101.t9QB1vBU037952@mx1.piesky.com> Message-ID: <000601d1101d$7f980420$7ec80c60$@charter.net> -----Original Message----- Steve WA1QIX wrote: This is a definite overload scenario, and there really should be a detection element for this condition. In the overload protection system I use for the solid state transmitters, one of the inputs is SWR. This is very easy to detect - I modified an existing SWR meter and fed the forward and reflected power outputs back to the overload shutdown system. A comparator compares the reflected power to the forward power, and if the reflected power is too high, that's an overload and the system shuts down. SWR shutdown is part of virtually every "rice box", and it's not too hard to implement. ----------------------------------------------------------- I have pondered the idea of something like that, but the problem is I don't have a sprig of 50-ohm coax anywhere in my entire antenna system, so I can't conveniently monitor SWR; everything in the system is inter-connected with open wire line, some of it running as a tuned feeder and some as a flat line. I did cobble together a balanced MicroMatch several years ago, based on the one described in the April, 1947 QST, but it is too cumbersome to permanently insert in my feeder section where the line runs flat. Maybe some variation of the "twin lamp" indicator could work. In the meantime, I just make it a point to keep an eye on the scope and the final tubes. I made that a little easier with my Gates BC1-T/Raytheon RA-1000 hybrid I use on 160, by cutting out the missing corner from that goofy little triangular peep-hole on the door, converting it fully to a rectangular window. Don --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From oneets123 at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 16:48:45 2015 From: oneets123 at gmail.com (Larry Oneets) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:48:45 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas Message-ID: I Guess that Bob is not a fan of a vertical antenna and that is his opinion. BUT there are many of us that just cannot do otherwise and from everything that I know any antenna that puts out a signal is better than nothing at all. I know of many who use a vertical antenna on their automobile for most if not all of the HF bands and have a great signal. So there is no reason to believe that a vertical will not work at ones home. As far a radials go even one will work but more the merrier and if they are on or in the ground they are not tuned no matter what one does. So put up a vertical and as many radials as one can and enjoy ham radio. You will not be the power house that a 100 foot tower and multi element beam is but there are lots of contacts out there to be made with even the most meager of antennas and rigs=-=-=-Remember the novice days, we made contacts with almost nothing. Enjoy ham radio one does not need big and expensive anything for a really good time. Larry K9LWI From rbethman at comcast.net Mon Oct 26 18:25:04 2015 From: rbethman at comcast.net (rbethman) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:25:04 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562EA840.1010804@comcast.net> It is not that I am not a fan of verticals! It has to do with what I could cobble together to put up! It most likely would be so fouled up with loading coils that it would be essentially be a dummy load. I'd procure a pretty decent one if the budget would allow. Now, my paltry little bit of spending allowance gets spread across quite a few different projects and hobbies. I'm working on some newer test gear right now. One thing at a time. Hopefully I'll get there to enjoy it. Father time is creeping along. Then that sorry Greek Arthritis, calls way too frequently! Antenna work isn't easy any more either! Just spent today working on one of the dipoles today. Looking for my Tylenol 3 right before I walked in here. That is the cause of no more than three boatanchor receivers! Can't move the gear anywhere like I used to! I am not looking forward to taking the Northern Radio SP-600 out of the rack and putting it on the bench! I know it is going to paid in pain. Regards, Bob - N0DGN On 10/26/2015 4:48 PM, Larry Oneets wrote: > I Guess that Bob is not a fan of a vertical antenna and that is his > opinion. BUT there are many of us that just cannot do otherwise and from > everything that I know any antenna that puts out a signal is better than > nothing at all. I know of many who use a vertical antenna on their > automobile for most if not all of the HF bands and have a great signal. So > there is no reason to believe that a vertical will not work at ones home. > As far a radials go even one will work but more the merrier and if they are > on or in the ground they are not tuned no matter what one does. So put up > a vertical and as many radials as one can and enjoy ham radio. You will > not be the power house that a 100 foot tower and multi element beam is but > there are lots of contacts out there to be made with even the most meager > of antennas and rigs=-=-=-Remember the novice days, we made contacts with > almost nothing. > Enjoy ham radio one does not need big and expensive anything for a really > good time. > Larry K9LWI From rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 28 15:07:47 2015 From: rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com (C.L. Mitchell) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:07:47 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] WARNING: Overload protection is not 100% reliable even when relays are functioning properly In-Reply-To: <002201d10fb7$ed243560$c76ca020$@charter.net> References: <002201d10fb7$ed243560$c76ca020$@charter.net> Message-ID: It seems that you could rectify a little RF from your monitor scope and use it to drive a relay [through appropriate DC amplification and filtering] in series with the overcurrent relay in the final. I have not done this; it just seems logical that it would solve the possibly expensive problem. Mitch, K9PNP > From: k4kyv at charter.net > To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 01:31:19 -0500 > Subject: [AMRadio] WARNING: Overload protection is not 100% reliable even when relays are functioning properly > > With both my converted Gates broadcast transmitter and homebrew HF-300 rig, > I have experienced the following scenario more than once: some kind of > anomaly occurs somewhere in the antenna system, maybe an arc-over at the > tuned circuit at the base of the tower, a bug crawls between the plates of > an air variable, the antenna falls down or shorts out in high wind, or maybe > a corroded connection fails. This throws the system off resonance and > de-couples the load from the final, so that manually re-adjusting the main > plate tuning control would dip the plate current to near zero, but under > the conditions of the malfunction, just enough reactance is thrown into the > system to de-tune the final to where it isn't dipped all the way to zero. > Thus the final may be detuned from resonance just enough that the plate > current remains near normal -- but all the DC input is being dissipated in > the plate of the tube with no RF delivered to the output. You could > simulate the effect by disconnecting the feed line from the transmitter, > dipping the final to minimum plate current, then adjusting the plate tuning > away from the resonant dip just far enough to bring the plate current back > to its normal value. The tube plates then dissipate well beyond their rated > maximum, but the final plate current is not high enough or far enough from > normal to kick the overload relay. Under such conditions, the tube(s) may > quickly become damaged or destroyed without the overload protection sensing > anything abnormal. This has occurred a few times while I was transmitting, > but I noticed nothing out of the ordinary until I happened to glance over at > the final amplifier plates and saw they were running bright red or orange, > or I noticed the monitor scope was displaying no output from the > transmitter even though the final plate current meter showed a normal > indication. > > This could easily occur at stations where the transmitter is remotely > located away from the operating position and controlled from another room or > building, or even right in the shack with transmitters that have no viewing > window to allow the operator to see the final tube plate(s). > > Don k4kyv > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 06:00:31 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 05:00:31 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] WSM celebrates 90 years... Message-ID: Wish I'd been there for the party http://www.radioworld.com/article/am-wsm-celebrates--years/277422 Rob K5UJ From jc at pctechref.com Fri Oct 30 12:40:48 2015 From: jc at pctechref.com (John Coleman) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:40:48 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] WARNING: Overload protection is not 100% reliable even when relays are functioning properly In-Reply-To: <002201d10fb7$ed243560$c76ca020$@charter.net> References: <002201d10fb7$ed243560$c76ca020$@charter.net> Message-ID: <001e01d11331$bb487bf0$31d973d0$@pctechref.com> If I ever get around to it. For remote operation, I would prefer a thermal sensor light/heat detector. And have digital telemitry info sent to my operating location. But for a quick local senareo, the detected analog output of the detector circuit could sound an alarm or shut the XMTR down. I have thought of this many times but have never got around to implementing it. It might even work with just a LDR and a little DC amplifier circuit to a small relay. Similar to the devices that turn on your porch light after dark. They might even work on the IR from the final tube or even the light from the red plate, HIHI. John, WA5BXO -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Donald Chester Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 1:31 AM To: 'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service' Subject: [AMRadio] WARNING: Overload protection is not 100% reliable even when relays are functioning properly With both my converted Gates broadcast transmitter and homebrew HF-300 rig, I have experienced the following scenario more than once: some kind of anomaly occurs somewhere in the antenna system, maybe an arc-over at the tuned circuit at the base of the tower, a bug crawls between the plates of an air variable, the antenna falls down or shorts out in high wind, or maybe a corroded connection fails. This throws the system off resonance and de-couples the load from the final, so that manually re-adjusting the main plate tuning control would dip the plate current to near zero, but under the conditions of the malfunction, just enough reactance is thrown into the system to de-tune the final to where it isn't dipped all the way to zero. Thus the final may be detuned from resonance just enough that the plate current remains near normal -- but all the DC input is being dissipated in the plate of the tube with no RF delivered to the output. You could simulate the effect by disconnecting the feed line from the transmitter, dipping the final to minimum plate current, then adjusting the plate tuning away from the resonant dip just far enough to bring the plate current back to its normal value. The tube plates then dissipate well beyond their rated maximum, but the final plate current is not high enough or far enough from normal to kick the overload relay. Under such conditions, the tube(s) may quickly become damaged or destroyed without the overload protection sensing anything abnormal. This has occurred a few times while I was transmitting, but I noticed nothing out of the ordinary until I happened to glance over at the final amplifier plates and saw they were running bright red or orange, or I noticed the monitor scope was displaying no output from the transmitter even though the final plate current meter showed a normal indication. This could easily occur at stations where the transmitter is remotely located away from the operating position and controlled from another room or building, or even right in the shack with transmitters that have no viewing window to allow the operator to see the final tube plate(s). Don k4kyv From knjhanlon at msn.com Fri Oct 30 13:54:41 2015 From: knjhanlon at msn.com (JAMES HANLON) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:54:41 -0600 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob, N0DGN, wrote: "It is not that I am not a fan of verticals! It has to do with what I could cobble together to put up! It most likely would be so fouled up with loading coils that it would be essentially be a dummy load. "I'd procure a pretty decent one if the budget would allow." I'm about as cheap as they come when it comes to spending money onantennas. I'm still using the wire that my uncle left in our basement whenhe moved from KY to CA in 1942 for the 268' flat top in my all-band, center fed "Zepp." Several years ago I put up a center-fed, vertical doublet, 33 feet tall. I usedthose military surplus, plug-together fiberglass pole sections to make a mast.I would have gone taller, but 33 feet was as long as I could make the mast beforeit would split in the center as I was walking it up with one end tied to the ground. I feed the antenna with 300 ohm, open wire line - I picked up a big rollof the stuff out of someone's garbage. My balanced antenna tuner is home-madefrom WW2 surplus caps and coils, mostly BC-375 like stuff. The antenna has nolossy loading coils and no radials. Its bottom is only about six inches above the ground.It loads up and works out well on the bands from 30 through 10 meters. EZNEC says it has good, low-angle radiation over that range. It still would have had good low-angle performance if I had been able to make it as much as 40 feet long, and it might have loaded on 40 meters as well. It works out well, it handles the 600 watt output of my SB-200 if necessary, it is definitely not a dummy load, and it is CHEAP! 73, Jim, W8KGI From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 17:55:40 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:55:40 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's true that antenna hardware costs a lot more now than it did 20 or 30 years ago however in general, the investment in an antenna pays dividends for decades to come. I frequency see hams blow thousands of dollars on super expensive plastic radios, then put up a relatively cheap dipole or crappy "no radials needed" vertical. It's better to put up the best antenna you can possibly afford and ditto for the receiver, pay for quality as much as possible then cheap out in the rig if you have to. 73 Rob K5UJ From k4kyv at charter.net Fri Oct 30 18:00:13 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 17:00:13 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000901d1135e$5a6ef610$0f4ce230$@charter.net> Bob, N0DGN, wrote: > I'm about as cheap as they come when it comes to spending money on > antennas. I'm still using the wire that my uncle left in our basement when he moved from KY to CA in 1942 for the > 268' flat top in my all-band, center fed "Zepp." That 73 y.o. wire should be just as good as any brand new shiny copper from Wireman. I'm probably as "cheap" as they come, but the antenna isn't the place to be cheap. Back in 1980 I bought brand new tower sections and associated hardware to build my present antenna system. I had already acquired the copper wire for the radial system a few years earlier and had it stored away in a shed before we moved back here. I inherited a used base insulator from a broadcast station when they replaced a damaged tower; paid $100 for it. Those were the pre-copper thievery days, and I wasn't too concerned about leaving several hundred pounds of copper unsecured in an unlocked unattended shed out in the country. No-one had touched the wire when we moved here and I decided to start building the antenna, although the wooden spools hadn't fared so well in the dampness. The whole thing cost me a total of about $1600 back then, about the same as what I would have paid for a top-of-the-line transceiver of the day. At that time, my antenna was a crappy OWL-fed dipole about 25' high strung between a couple of maple trees, and had to be re-erected after nearly ever windstorm. I could have chosen the transceiver, knowing I would have had bragging rights of one of the finest plastic radios money could buy, but the signal would have still been mediocre with that antenna, and those were back in the days when amateur radio phone signals were SUPPOSED to sound scratchy and tinny like space shuttle audio and most ham manufacturers were happy to comply. But what would I have to show for it to-day? A bad-sounding 35 y.o. transceiver that, even if it still worked, would be worth a couple of hundred bucks at most, and that same mediocre antenna and crappy signal; undoubtedly some replacement parts for the radio would be unobtanium if something crapped out. Instead, I chose the antenna, which put out a strapping signal all over N. America and the world, despite the fact that my transmitter even back then was "vintage", "antique" or as some would say, "outdated". The antenna straps as well to this day as it did the day I put it up. The tower has needed some maintenance, like the guy wires I replaced last year and a few more that still need replacing, but barring a direct hit with a tornado or a major earthquake, it will still be here for years to come, and will probably out-last me. I'm still using the same transmitter I was using when I put up the tower and antenna system; the tower is the ONLY major ham radio item I have EVER bought and paid a lot of money for brand new. Everything else in my shack was scrounged from hamfests, flea markets, classified ads, junk piles and occasionally picked off kerbside on garbage pick-up day, in other words, salvaged from what somebody else didn't want. Nevertheless, nearly every component in my transmitter was top-of-the-line quality when it was new, and no ham would have ever been able to afford to build that rig from scratch, purchasing all components brand new when they were in their heyday, but which were mostly considered trash by the time I acquired them. It's still a work in progress; even now when I occasionally run across a part, major or small, that I think might be better than what's already in the rig, I grab it, try it out, and if it works as well or better, keep it in the rig and save the old piece for a spare. I think I made the better choice. The antenna was by far the better deal. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From w3slk at verizon.net Fri Oct 30 18:11:25 2015 From: w3slk at verizon.net (Mike Sawyer) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 18:11:25 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: <000901d1135e$5a6ef610$0f4ce230$@charter.net> References: <000901d1135e$5a6ef610$0f4ce230$@charter.net> Message-ID: <000f01d1135f$ebd32800$c3797800$@verizon.net> I'll make this statement here and now, regardless if you use a vertical or horizontally polarized aerial: "A compromised antenna, will give you a compromised signal!" I don't know who told me that but it is true today as it was when I first heard it, (and probably years ago to boot!). Mod-U-Lator, Mike(y)/W3SLK From hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com Fri Oct 30 19:34:36 2015 From: hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com (Jim Liles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 18:34:36 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: <000f01d1135f$ebd32800$c3797800$@verizon.net> References: <000901d1135e$5a6ef610$0f4ce230$@charter.net> <000f01d1135f$ebd32800$c3797800$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7235EC4950B54232A188456624B95A5F@LILESJLAPTOP> Conceptual questions regarding vertical antennas --- like to know why --- not not just because: A ground mounted vertical uses buried radials. Is the primary function to provide some sort of reflecting effect or a low resistance counterpoise to the driven element? In either case, why specify the length of a radial if it cannot function in a resonant manner being bare wire and buried with whatever? What happens when it rains? How predictable is the radiation resistance of buried wire? What losses exist in the radials? If it?s to provide a counterpoise, why not use a tuned artificial ground i.e. series resonant shunt to a good ground? Thanks for your time --- just curious. Kindest regards Jim K9AXN From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 20:12:38 2015 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 19:12:38 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: <7235EC4950B54232A188456624B95A5F@LILESJLAPTOP> References: <000901d1135e$5a6ef610$0f4ce230$@charter.net> <000f01d1135f$ebd32800$c3797800$@verizon.net> <7235EC4950B54232A188456624B95A5F@LILESJLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Jim Liles wrote: > Conceptual questions regarding vertical antennas --- like to know why --- not not just because: > > A ground mounted vertical uses buried radials. Is the primary function to provide some sort of reflecting effect or a low resistance counterpoise to the driven element? > the ground system is part of the antenna, the other pole of the monopole if you will. Earth alone has too much resistance; the ground system provides a lower resistance return of RF current to the feedpoint, but since there is unavoidable loss, the current returned is unequal compared to what you'd have with a dipole so the antenna is unbalanced. The ground system doesn't have to be at or below grade; the radials can be elevated, but on 75 and 160 m. it is hard to accomplish because to function as an efficient counterpoise with only a few of "resonant" length, they have to be isolated from ground and the length matters. It's usually easier, especially on 160 m. to simply bury a lot of radials than it is to string up 4 or 6 at a height of 1/10 lambda which is the height necessary to isolate them from earth if you are going to elevate them. at or below grade, the length isn't as critical because their purpose is to improve ground conductivity around the base of the excited vertical element, so you need more, a lot more. your other questions indicate you could benefit from reading a good book on this topic and other aspects of AM broadcast service. I recommend you find a used copy of Radio-Electronic Transmission Fundamentals by B. Whitfield Griffith, Jr. You may be able to find it used at abebooks.com it's an excellent book that was originally written to be a college textbook to introduce EE students to practical matters of RF and radio broadcasting. 73 Rob K5UJ From hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com Fri Oct 30 23:52:41 2015 From: hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com (Jim Liles) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 22:52:41 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: References: <000901d1135e$5a6ef610$0f4ce230$@charter.net><000f01d1135f$ebd32800$c3797800$@verizon.net><7235EC4950B54232A188456624B95A5F@LILESJLAPTOP> Message-ID: <8160B526243644988BADA1FFB95CF346@LILESJLAPTOP> Hi Rob, Back in the early 60?s when I was educated we used Physics and Terman?s 1955 edition. Never read Griffith. I?ve heard a number of theories regarding vertical antennas and like to hear the conceptual explanations for the ideas. The first question was: A ground mounted vertical uses buried radials. Is the primary function to provide some sort of reflecting effect or a low resistance counterpoise to the driven element? Have other questions that build on the first that cannot be asked until the first is answered. Thanks for the response Rob --- Kindest regards Jim K9AXN -----Original Message----- From: Rob Atkinson Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 7:12 PM To: Jim Liles Cc: AMradio Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Jim Liles wrote: > Conceptual questions regarding vertical antennas --- like to know why --- not not just because: > > A ground mounted vertical uses buried radials. Is the primary function to provide some sort of reflecting effect or a low resistance counterpoise to the driven element? > the ground system is part of the antenna, the other pole of the monopole if you will. Earth alone has too much resistance; the ground system provides a lower resistance return of RF current to the feedpoint, but since there is unavoidable loss, the current returned is unequal compared to what you'd have with a dipole so the antenna is unbalanced. The ground system doesn't have to be at or below grade; the radials can be elevated, but on 75 and 160 m. it is hard to accomplish because to function as an efficient counterpoise with only a few of "resonant" length, they have to be isolated from ground and the length matters. It's usually easier, especially on 160 m. to simply bury a lot of radials than it is to string up 4 or 6 at a height of 1/10 lambda which is the height necessary to isolate them from earth if you are going to elevate them. at or below grade, the length isn't as critical because their purpose is to improve ground conductivity around the base of the excited vertical element, so you need more, a lot more. your other questions indicate you could benefit from reading a good book on this topic and other aspects of AM broadcast service. I recommend you find a used copy of Radio-Electronic Transmission Fundamentals by B. Whitfield Griffith, Jr. You may be able to find it used at abebooks.com it's an excellent book that was originally written to be a college textbook to introduce EE students to practical matters of RF and radio broadcasting. 73 Rob K5UJ From michjonezee at yahoo.com Sat Oct 31 11:28:05 2015 From: michjonezee at yahoo.com (Rich Jones) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:28:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas References: <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I went from a 20 acre farm to a mobile home park, double-wide (a nice park with restrictions of course). ?I use a 75 meter ham stick, grounded to a 3/4 in. copper pipe in the?ground. ?The whole array is up 4 ft and I use a 16 ft aluminum flag pole and 20 feet of copper wire as a counter-poise. ?I love CW but use this set-up forAM and SSB net contacts as far away at night as 1000 miles. ?A pair of 6146's in a old TS-520 and also using a Ten Tec 238 "L" match tuner to fine tunethe whole set-up. ?From two towers and a beverage to a hamstick, I still make contacts. ?Also, you are right about the novice days, I once had a QSOwith a JA on 15 meters with a light bulb for an antenna in CW mode, running 15 watts. ?For the upper bands a 9ft high Sigma 5. ?Enjoy the hobby, I still do. ?73 de Rich K8UV in SE Michigan. From w4rl at bellsouth.net Sat Oct 31 12:03:37 2015 From: w4rl at bellsouth.net (Robert) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:03:37 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5634E659.9050602@bellsouth.net> Now that, Rich, gives lots of hams "hope" ie a "light at the end of the tunnel" when having to size down as our lives change over the years. Sizing down doesn't mean giving up. tnx es 73 de Robert W4RL Pensacola FL On 10/31/2015 10:28 AM, Rich Jones via AMRadio wrote: > I went from a 20 acre farm to a mobile home park, double-wide (a nice park with restrictions of course). I use a 75 meter ham stick, grounded to a 3/4 in. copper pipe in the ground. The whole array is up 4 ft and I use a 16 ft aluminum flag pole and 20 feet of copper wire as a counter-poise. I love CW but use this set-up forAM and SSB net contacts as far away at night as 1000 miles. A pair of 6146's in a old TS-520 and also using a Ten Tec 238 "L" match tuner to fine tunethe whole set-up. From two towers and a beverage to a hamstick, I still make contacts. Also, you are right about the novice days, I once had a QSOwith a JA on 15 meters with a light bulb for an antenna in CW mode, running 15 watts. For the upper bands a 9ft high Sigma 5. Enjoy the hobby, I still do. 73 de Rich K8UV in SE Michigan. > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w4rl at bellsouth.net From wa9vrh at wildblue.net Sat Oct 31 12:24:22 2015 From: wa9vrh at wildblue.net (wa9vrh at wildblue.net) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: <5634E659.9050602@bellsouth.net> References: <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5634E659.9050602@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <1468007982.290815145.1446308662672.JavaMail.zimbra@wildblue.net> Hi Robert and all. Good information and hope more people will come forward with success stories. In the next year or so we will probably be moving South to get away from Illinois taxes and snow. So I am looking for just these suggestions. 73 Larry WA9VRH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert" To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 11:03:37 AM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas Now that, Rich, gives lots of hams "hope" ie a "light at the end of the tunnel" when having to size down as our lives change over the years. Sizing down doesn't mean giving up. tnx es 73 de Robert W4RL Pensacola FL On 10/31/2015 10:28 AM, Rich Jones via AMRadio wrote: > I went from a 20 acre farm to a mobile home park, double-wide (a nice park with restrictions of course). I use a 75 meter ham stick, grounded to a 3/4 in. copper pipe in the ground. The whole array is up 4 ft and I use a 16 ft aluminum flag pole and 20 feet of copper wire as a counter-poise. I love CW but use this set-up forAM and SSB net contacts as far away at night as 1000 miles. A pair of 6146's in a old TS-520 and also using a Ten Tec 238 "L" match tuner to fine tunethe whole set-up. From two towers and a beverage to a hamstick, I still make contacts. Also, you are right about the novice days, I once had a QSOwith a JA on 15 meters with a light bulb for an antenna in CW mode, running 15 watts. For the upper bands a 9ft high Sigma 5. Enjoy the hobby, I still do. 73 de Rich K8UV in SE Michigan. > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w4rl at bellsouth.net ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wa9vrh at wildblue.net From w4rl at bellsouth.net Sat Oct 31 12:41:49 2015 From: w4rl at bellsouth.net (Robert) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:41:49 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: <1468007982.290815145.1446308662672.JavaMail.zimbra@wildblue.net> References: <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5634E659.9050602@bellsouth.net> <1468007982.290815145.1446308662672.JavaMail.zimbra@wildblue.net> Message-ID: <5634EF4D.7020906@bellsouth.net> Hi Larry. Thanks. Yep, "What?s in a name (QSO)? That which we call a rose (QSO), By any other name would smell as sweet.". 73 Robert W4RL On 10/31/2015 11:24 AM, wa9vrh at wildblue.net wrote: > Hi Robert and all. Good information and hope more people will come forward > with success stories. In the next year or so we will probably be moving South to > get away from Illinois taxes and snow. So I am looking for just these suggestions. > > 73 Larry WA9VRH > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert" > To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 11:03:37 AM > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas > > Now that, Rich, gives lots of hams "hope" ie a "light at the end of the > tunnel" when having to size down as our lives change over the years. > Sizing down doesn't mean giving up. tnx es 73 de Robert W4RL Pensacola FL > > From hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com Sat Oct 31 12:57:27 2015 From: hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com (Jim Liles) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:57:27 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: <5634E659.9050602@bellsouth.net> References: <978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com><978209250.220919.1446305285205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5634E659.9050602@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <62DA333C6B9445C2BDD963C8A9BAD9D2@LILESJLAPTOP> Good morning Robert et al, I used a 20 metre monobander at 110 ft for years. Now have a trap dipole at 15 ft and have no trouble connecting with any continent when condx are good. Have fishing line attached at traps so I can drag that thing around the axis and act like it's directional. Sounds arcane but enjoy playing in the sandbox. Successfully used a pair of mobile trap verticals attached to a hub to create a dipole that could be positioned in any direction or angle. Didn't need a ground or counterpoise. Could drag that thing around the attic, attach it to a tree or a light pole. Remember fondly the 50's, when for the first and only time I ever saw the Aurora, the 6AG7/6L6 monster transmitter was able to reach anywhere on the planet and the magnificent S20R was still in it's prime. Kindest regards Jim K9AXN -----Original Message----- From: Robert Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 11:03 AM To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas Now that, Rich, gives lots of hams "hope" ie a "light at the end of the tunnel" when having to size down as our lives change over the years. Sizing down doesn't mean giving up. tnx es 73 de Robert W4RL Pensacola FL On 10/31/2015 10:28 AM, Rich Jones via AMRadio wrote: > I went from a 20 acre farm to a mobile home park, double-wide (a nice park > with restrictions of course). I use a 75 meter ham stick, grounded to a > 3/4 in. copper pipe in the ground. The whole array is up 4 ft and I use a > 16 ft aluminum flag pole and 20 feet of copper wire as a counter-poise. I > love CW but use this set-up forAM and SSB net contacts as far away at > night as 1000 miles. A pair of 6146's in a old TS-520 and also using a > Ten Tec 238 "L" match tuner to fine tunethe whole set-up. From two towers > and a beverage to a hamstick, I still make contacts. Also, you are right > about the novice days, I once had a QSOwith a JA on 15 meters with a light > bulb for an antenna in CW mode, running 15 watts. For the upper bands a > 9ft high Sigma 5. Enjoy the hobby, I still do. 73 de Rich K8UV in SE > Michigan. > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w4rl at bellsouth.net ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to hallicrafterssr2000 at k9axn.com From k4kyv at charter.net Sat Oct 31 19:37:54 2015 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:37:54 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Vertical antennas In-Reply-To: <7235EC4950B54232A188456624B95A5F@LILESJLAPTOP> References: <000901d1135e$5a6ef610$0f4ce230$@charter.net> <000f01d1135f$ebd32800$c3797800$@verizon.net> <7235EC4950B54232A188456624B95A5F@LILESJLAPTOP> Message-ID: <004c01d11435$2a800430$7f800c90$@charter.net> > A ground mounted vertical uses buried radials. Is the primary function to provide some sort of reflecting effect or a low > resistance counterpoise to the driven element? The radials can be laid on the surface; they don't have to be buried. The only reason to bury them is to physically protect them from surface traffic like human and animal feet and lawn mowers. You can think of radials from two perspectives; take your pick. (1) The radials provide a low resistance return path for ground currents, compared to bare earth, thus reducing ground losses. (2) The radial ground plane acts as a shield between the radiating vertical element and the lossy earth, thus reducing ground losses. Another perspective is that the ground plane acts as a reflective mirror, providing a virtual image of the missing half of the 180 degree resonant antenna you have with a quarter wave monopole. > What happens when it rains? Ground losses may decrease, particularly if the radial system is marginal. The more radials and the more optimum their length, the less factors like ground moisture will affect antenna performance. > In either case, why specify the length of a radial if it cannot function in a resonant manner being bare wire and buried with > whatever? The ground-mounted or buried radial doesn't have to be resonant length. Up to a point of diminishing returns, the longer each radial, the better. But it's more complicated than that. For a given limited amount of wire, it's better to lay down a large number of short radials than a small number of long ones. The more radials, the more making each one longer improves antenna performance. IOW, the more radials you lay down, the longer you want each one to be. With only a few radials, making each one more than a small fraction of a wavelength long, would make little difference in their effectiveness . Better to use the extra wire to make a few more short radials. > How predictable is the radiation resistance of buried wire? The buried wire has no radiation resistance since it does not radiate. > What losses exist in the radials? Very little loss in the radial wires themselves. But the fewer the radials, the more the ground loss from the bare earth adjacent to the radial wires. > If it?s to provide a counterpoise, why not use a tuned artificial ground i.e. series resonant shunt to a good ground? The ground system is more than just a counterpoise to make the vertical conductor self-resonant. For example, with AM broadcast verticals, even when the vertical tower is a self-resonant 180 degrees (half wavelength) tall, mounted on an insulator, an extensive ground radial system is deployed. If the resonant conductor were sufficient and the ground radials not necessary, given the cost of copper and real estate, why wouldn't a half wavelength base-insulated vertical tower with no ground radials be the standard broadcast antenna? The proximity of the bottom end of the ground-mounted half wave tower to the earth, with no radial system, would induce significant loss. Don k4kyv --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

This page last updated 19 Oct 2017.