From kenw8ek at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 11:21:21 2016 From: kenw8ek at gmail.com (Ken, W8EK) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 11:21:21 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Kenwood Items FS Message-ID: <3b542c05-1a1c-f0b2-1c9f-4b4dadedf01b@gmail.com> Kenwood Items For Sale: Plug In Crystal Filters, External Speaker, Desk Mics, Dual Band Cross Band FM Transceiver, Multimode 2 M Transceiver, Cables, Extension Feet, Etc. Kenwood "Plug In" Crystal Filters: All are for the 8.83 MHz IF, work 100% and look like new. Paper work is included. Kenwood YK-88 SN 1 Crystal Filter This filter is 1800 Hz wide, for narrow SSB or wide CW/digital. This is a "plug in filter" as opposed to the type that must be soldered in. It is used in rigs such as the TS-450, TS-570, TS-690, TS-850, TS-930, TS-940, TS-950, and others. $79 Kenwood YK-88 C 1 Crystal Filter 500 Hz wide for CW and narrow digital. Fits same rigs as listed above. $79 Kenwood YK-88 S 1 Crystal Filter This plug in filter is 2400 Hz wide and is used in the same rigs as listed above. $75 Kenwood SP-23 External Speaker: The Kenwood SP-23 base speaker matches many Kenwood transceivers including the TS-450S, TS-570S/D and TS-690. This versatile 8 ohm speaker features a metal cabinet with flip-out tilt bar. It has a 3 inch (77 mm) speaker element rated to 1 watt, with a 300 to 5000 Hz response. The rear panel features two screw connections, and includes a 3 foot audio cable. It is 4.8 x 3.75 x 9.25 inches, and weighs 2.8 lbs. This particular speaker works fine, and looks like new. It is in its original box, with cable and paper work for only $75. Kenwood MC-60 A, Deluxe Desk Microphone: The Kenwood MC-60A is a communication type dynamic unidirectional mic. It features UP-DOWN tuning. The mic impedance may be set for 50K ohms or 500 ohms. The frequency response is 150 Hz to 10 kHz (-6dB) with the Preamp off and 200 Hz to 7 kHz (-6 dB) with the Preamp on. The heavy zinc die-cast base provides extra stability. The mic terminates to a standard round 8 pin mic plug. It can be used on virtually any of the Kenwood rigs that use a round 8 pin connector. Please note that the earlier MC-60 (non-"A") version has a 4 pin mic plug and no UP-DOWN tuning. This particular mic appears to be new, unused. It came from a SK, so I can not verify for sure, but it certainly looks new, and of course works like new. This is a current model and sells for about $160. Buy this one for only $100. Kenwood MC-85 Deluxe Desk Microphone Parts: The Kenwood MC-85 will take up to three mic cords, i.e. it is capable of being used on three rigs. MC-85 desk mic "Tech Special" It looks like the silent key was working on repair of this when he passed. All parts appear to be present, plus the addition of a couple extra up/down switches. $45 Kenwood TM-732 Dual Band FM Cross Band Repeat Transceiver: The Kenwood TM-732A dual band 2 meter, 440 MHz transceiver provides high performance communications with operating ease. It features dual receive including V+V and U+U, built-in CTCSS, DTSS and page functions, 50 memory channels and multi-scan functions. The high visibility front panel is detachable. Extended receive range is 118-174 MHz and 438-450 MHz. Power output is 50/10/5 watts on 2 meters and 35/10/5 watts on 440 MHz. Requires 13.8 VDC at 11.5 amps. MC-45DM multifunction DTMF hand mic included. Features: 50 Memories Scanning CTCSS Encode S Meter Squelch Auto Power Off Cross Band Repeat DTMF Memory Triple Tone Alert DTSS Pager Function DTMF Hand Mic This particular unit works 100% and looks like new. No scratches. With paper work for $200. Kenwood TS-700 A, 2 meter Multimode transceiver: The Kenwood TS-700A multimode transceiver provides 2 meter operation in FM, LSB, USB, AM and CW modes. Power output is rated at 10 watts. It covers the entire 2 meter band. Enhancements include RF gain, RIT, squelch, noise blanker and 44 fixed channels (11 per MHz band). Operation is from 120/220 VAC, or 13.8 VDC at 4 amps. Features: Multi-Mode RIT Noise Blanker On-Air Indicator Squelch AC/DC Operation This unit looks good. It transmits in all modes, but I am 90% sure someone took a "golden screwdriver" to it. The power output is in the 18 to 20 watt range instead of 11 to 12 as it should be. This indicates some one has "tweaked" it. The frequency that it transmits and receives on is not the same as indicated. Basically, I think it needs a complete, accurate alignment, and then it would be great. With paper work and 110 V AC power cord for $150. The DC power cord is not included. Linear Amp Switching Cables for Kenwood Rigs: This cable goes from a Kenwood transceiver to a linear amplifier to switch the amp from transmit to receive. One end has a DIN connector, as is used with most Kenwood rigs. The other end has an RCA phono plug, as used by most linear amplifiers. Before using this cable, please check the switching capabilities of your transceiver, and the requirements of your amplifier. Cable for switching the T/R relay. Only $15. Cable as above, but with ALC line in addition to T/R switching. $20 Kenwood "Extension Feet": This is a set of two feet that are often used on various Kenwood rigs to raise the front by about 1/2 inch to give a rig, speaker, remote VFO, etc. the tilt that makes it easier to read. This is a complete set of two front feet, with the needed hardware. $15 Other Kenwood Items, such as manuals and original boxes, are also available. I also have many other accessories available such as many different types of microphones, HTs, VHF and UHF rigs, HF and VHF/UHF antennas, connectors, miscellaneous accessories, etc. Just too many to list here. Please e-mail your requests. Prices do not include shipping from Florida. Thanks. 73, Ken, W8EK Ken Simpson E-mail to W8EK at FLHam.net or W8EK at arrl.net Voice Phone (352) 732-8400 From stg57 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 3 12:25:09 2016 From: stg57 at yahoo.com (James) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 16:25:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] FS: AM Station Heathkit-Hammarlund References: <622696676.2507253.1467563109477.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <622696676.2507253.1467563109477.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hello Group, Before listing this on QRZ, or on Ebay, I wanted to post it on this site first. Please contact me at Ws4jh63 at Gmail, orStg57 at yahoo.com. What I have for sale is a Heathkit DX-100 Transmitter, Hammarlund HQ-110 Receiver, D-104 Mike, Antenna Relay, Heathkit HO-10 Scope, and N3ZI Frequency counter for the Xmit VFO. The DX-100 I picked up a few years ago from someone that regularly used it, has been modified with a PTT, audio section modifies for better audio, and the rectification tubes replaced with solid state rectifiers. The HO-10 has had the HV Capacitors replaced. The HQ-110 receiver has had the HV capacitors replaced, works fine, if someone has the proper test gear an alignment could not hurt I am asking $425.00 for the set. I am willing to deliver within 100 Miles =/- from Boone NC. I do not recommend shipping at all due to the weight. Photos and Phone number available on request. WS4JH James Harrison From paul at paulbaldock.com Wed Jul 6 19:21:27 2016 From: paul at paulbaldock.com (Paul Baldock) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:21:27 -0700 Subject: [AMRadio] 10 meters is open (sporadically) In-Reply-To: <622696676.2507253.1467563109477.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo. com> References: <622696676.2507253.1467563109477.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <622696676.2507253.1467563109477.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160706232140.A75C7169D7B@filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net> 10m sporadic E propagation is in full swing here on the West Coast, with lots of beacons making the North South trip. However there are very few stations, and so far I've heard nothing on AM. Time to fire up those 29MHz rigs ! - Paul KW7Y --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jc at pctechref.com Thu Jul 7 14:39:44 2016 From: jc at pctechref.com (John Coleman) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:39:44 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Heathkit -VF-1 low band band spread Message-ID: <000801d1d87e$ee4d7e70$cae87b50$@pctechref.com> Ok let me see if I can explain my problem. # 1 The VFO works and cailbrates at both ends of the 40 meter band. #2 I made sure, that I was using the large rotor plates beginning with full mesh, and the dial set to just below the 3500 khz point. #3 I know that if you desire to cover less band frequencies, then the tunning capicor must be less percentage of the parrallel capacitors. #4 I have worked this thing back and forth and it all ways comes out that the coil slug is screwed out all the way (min L) and the trim cap is max. #5 I hit 3500 khz before I get to the low end of the dial. If I dial lower the freq actually goes well below 3500 khz before I get down to 3500 on the dial. #6 I hit 4000 khz before the dial gets all the way to 4000 and it continues higher if I continue to turn it untill the main tunning cap is full un-meshed. I could take turns off of the coil and add extra capacitors across the tunning cap. But I just doesn't make since. Or perhaps I could use the smaller rotor plates (maybe that is the answer and the large rotor for the high band). I don't think the 510 pf caps that make up the feed back divider at the grid and cathode would be a culprit. Help, John, WA5BXO From kenw8ek at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 10:23:01 2016 From: kenw8ek at gmail.com (Ken, W8EK) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:23:01 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] TenTec Corsair, Scout, Antenna Tuner FS Message-ID: TenTec 555 Scout and 560 Corsair, plus 229 B Antenna Tuner For Sale: . . TenTec Corsair 560 HF transceiver Covers all HF bands 160 thru 10 meters, including the WARC bands. NO general coverage receiver, as the receiver is optimized for the ham bands. Although it has superb SSB, and also has the absolute best QSK CW available. Many say it has the best receiver made -- certainly in the top analog receivers. This one works as it should with full power output and excellent receive. Cosmetically, it looks extremely nice. I do not find any scratches. It has a plastic spiral bound manual that includes the regular TenTec manual, plus a considerable amount of extra info from the internet. Buy this gem for only $350. TenTec 263 remote VFO The 263 is used with the TenTec Corsair (or Corsair II). In addition to the normal split operation, it also permits one to receive on two frequencies simultaneously, and vary the relative signal of the two frequencies. This one works fine and looks great. Again, no scratches. With paper work for $175. TenTec 288, 1800 Hz crystal filter The 288 is used in the Corsair, as well as other TenTec rigs such as the Paragon. It is 1800 Hz wide, making it great for narrow SSB, but it is also terrific for wide CW, and is ideal for digital modes. Of course it works fine. With paper work for $75. Buy all three of the above for $575. . . TenTec 555 "Scout" HF Transceiver: The Scout is a relatively small 50 Watt output SSB and CW HF Transceiver. It is simple and easy to operate, but includes a CW electronic keyer, and of course TenTec's legendary full break in QSK. It also has an innovative "Jones filter" which has continuously variable bandwidth from about 2500 Hz to 500 Hz. Individual "Band Modules" are used to change bands, and to allow the operator to choose only those bands he is interested in. This particular Scout includes the optional 297 Noise Blanker, and one band module of your choice. It works 100% and looks extremely nice. You will need a magnifying glass to find any scratches. Paper work and power cord also included for $325. Band modules are available for 160, 80/75, 40, 30, 20, and 15 meters. Extra band modules will be available after the Scout sells. Model 700 Hand Mic. $35 . . Astron RS-20 A, 20 amp Power Supply: The Astron RS-20 A is a very common power supply around most ham shacks. It provides 13 V DC for many ham rigs. Features: Solid State Electronically Regulated Fold-Back Current Limiting Protects Power Supply from ...excessive current & continuous shorted output Crowbar Over Voltage Protection Excellent Regulation & Low Ripple at low line input voltage. Heavy Duty Heat Sink Chassis Mount Fuse Three Conductor Power Cord Specifications: Input Voltage 105-125Vac Output Voltage 13.8Vdc (internally Adjustable 11-15V) Ripple Less than 5mV peak-peak (full load & low line) Continuous Duty 16 Amps; ICS 20 Amps Size 5" x 9" x 10-1/2" This particular supply works great. It only varies 0.01 Volts with a load! Cosmetically it looks great. With paper work for only $65. . . TenTec 229 B HF Antenna Tuner For Sale: This roller inductor tuner will handle full legal power. It uses an "L" match instead of a "T" match, which means there is only one spot that will give the correct match, and is more efficient. Wattmeter (200/2000 watts) is built in with an SWR bridge and lighted meter, plus a 4 position antenna switch. It can be used on any HF frequency, including the WARC bands, as it is continuously adjustable. It has a built in internal balun, so open wire can be used. Cosmetically, this unit is the color of the Corsair I with a sort of very dark chocolate brown (almost black) color, although it can be used with any HF rig or legal limit amplifier. This unit has had the problematic dial and elastic cord changed to a turns counter for better reliability. This particular unit functions 100%, and looks great. I can not find a scratch on it. Paper work is included for $300. . . I also have many other accessories available such as many different types of microphones, HTs, VHF and UHF rigs, antennas, etc. Just too many things to list here. Please e-mail your requests. Prices do not include shipping from Florida. Thanks. 73, Ken, W8EK Ken Simpson E-mail to W8EK at FLHam.net or W8EK at arrl.net Voice Phone (352) 732-8400 From ars.w5omr at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 16:50:28 2016 From: ars.w5omr at gmail.com (ARS W5OMR) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 15:50:28 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Heathkit -VF-1 low band band spread In-Reply-To: <000801d1d87e$ee4d7e70$cae87b50$@pctechref.com> References: <000801d1d87e$ee4d7e70$cae87b50$@pctechref.com> Message-ID: I'm surprised no one has chimed in on this. So, the Heathkit VF-1 VFO doesn't track accurately on the lower bands setting, or is it just on 75/80m? Could it be an alignment issue, and necessary to tune 160m first, then maybe 75 would fall into place? As I recall, there are two 'bands' 1 has 160, 80 and 40 on it. 2 has 40, 20, 15, 11 and 10. If the issue is on 75, how does it track on 160? From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 18:25:49 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:25:49 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Heathkit -VF-1 low band band spread In-Reply-To: <000801d1d87e$ee4d7e70$cae87b50$@pctechref.com> References: <000801d1d87e$ee4d7e70$cae87b50$@pctechref.com> Message-ID: My July ER just arrived today and there is an article in it by W1TG on fixing problems with the VF1. Not sure but maybe this article will provide some clues or ideas. He had a jumping frequency problem for one thing, and it turned out to be the band switch. 73 Rob K5UJ On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 1:39 PM, John Coleman wrote: > Ok let me see if I can explain my problem. > # 1 > The VFO works and cailbrates at both ends of the 40 meter band. > #2 > I made sure, that I was using the large rotor plates beginning with full mesh, and the dial set to just below the 3500 khz point. > #3 > I know that if you desire to cover less band frequencies, then the tunning capicor must be less percentage of the parrallel capacitors. > #4 > I have worked this thing back and forth and it all ways comes out that the coil slug is screwed out all the way (min L) and the trim cap is max. > #5 > I hit 3500 khz before I get to the low end of the dial. If I dial lower the freq actually goes well below 3500 khz before I get down to 3500 on the dial. > #6 > I hit 4000 khz before the dial gets all the way to 4000 and it continues higher if I continue to turn it untill the main tunning cap is full un-meshed. > > I could take turns off of the coil and add extra capacitors across the tunning cap. But I just doesn't make since. Or perhaps I could use the smaller rotor plates (maybe that is the answer and the large rotor for the high band). > > I don't think the 510 pf caps that make up the feed back divider at the grid and cathode would be a culprit. > > Help, > John, WA5BXO From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 11 19:32:26 2016 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:32:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] VF1 References: <2133521652.1346880.1468279946559.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2133521652.1346880.1468279946559.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Note the previous comment. It is very easy to try and align the 40 meter band while looking at the wrong section of the dial. There are two 40 meter segments. I know this because the DX100 does the same thing and took a bit to figure out why the previous owner had 40 meters out of whack. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From w3slk at verizon.net Mon Jul 11 20:33:28 2016 From: w3slk at verizon.net (Mike Sawyer) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:33:28 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Heathkit -VF-1 low band band spread In-Reply-To: References: <000801d1d87e$ee4d7e70$cae87b50$@pctechref.com> Message-ID: <000601d1dbd5$06673880$1335a980$@verizon.net> The VF-1 is identical to the Viking I VFO. It is a doubler on 75M so I would look at the fundamental on 160 to see where the problem lies. Mod-U-Lator, Mike(y)/W3SLK -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rob Atkinson Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 6:26 PM To: John Coleman Cc: Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Heathkit -VF-1 low band band spread My July ER just arrived today and there is an article in it by W1TG on fixing problems with the VF1. Not sure but maybe this article will provide some clues or ideas. He had a jumping frequency problem for one thing, and it turned out to be the band switch. 73 Rob K5UJ On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 1:39 PM, John Coleman wrote: > Ok let me see if I can explain my problem. > # 1 > The VFO works and cailbrates at both ends of the 40 meter band. > #2 > I made sure, that I was using the large rotor plates beginning with full mesh, and the dial set to just below the 3500 khz point. > #3 > I know that if you desire to cover less band frequencies, then the tunning capicor must be less percentage of the parrallel capacitors. > #4 > I have worked this thing back and forth and it all ways comes out that the coil slug is screwed out all the way (min L) and the trim cap is max. > #5 > I hit 3500 khz before I get to the low end of the dial. If I dial lower the freq actually goes well below 3500 khz before I get down to 3500 on the dial. > #6 > I hit 4000 khz before the dial gets all the way to 4000 and it continues higher if I continue to turn it untill the main tunning cap is full un-meshed. > > I could take turns off of the coil and add extra capacitors across the tunning cap. But I just doesn't make since. Or perhaps I could use the smaller rotor plates (maybe that is the answer and the large rotor for the high band). > > I don't think the 510 pf caps that make up the feed back divider at the grid and cathode would be a culprit. > > Help, > John, WA5BXO ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3slk at verizon.net From k4kyv at charter.net Tue Jul 12 12:22:08 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 11:22:08 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Heathkit -VF-1 low band band spread Message-ID: <000301d1dc59$89c56470$9d502d50$@charter.net> I used a VF-1 for several years before replacing it with my current VFO, a highly modified T-368 master oscillator. Overall, it was more stable than the homebrew VFO I had used previously. I never had an alignment problem; the dial calibration with both frequency ranges was surprisingly good across the entire frequency range with both fundamental oscillator frequencies. The proper combination of settings of the trimmer capacitors and slug-tuned coils should yield the correct amount of bandspread in the tuning range. My frequency jumping problem was caused by one of the (10 pf, IIRC) ceramic temperature compensating capacitors. I found a suitable replacement and that cured the problem. One of the more annoying problems with mine was thermal instability and slow warmup drift. I had noticed that despite the fact that the circuits are identical, the VFO in the DX-100 was more stable. Then at a hamfest I picked up part of the innards of a gutted DX-100 and upon examination, I figured out what caused the problem. In the DX-100 the coils and tuning slugs are mounted on a single sheet of copper plated steel, with the slug bushings located between the mounting screws of the ceramic coils. In the VF-1, the coils, tuning capacitor and other frequency-determining components are mounted inside a little metal box made of the same material as the chassis. The problem is, the coils are fastened to one side of the steel box, while the slug bushings located on the opposite wall. Any expansion or contraction of the metal box with temperature causes the tuning slugs to move slightly in or out of the coils, generating drift. I partially disassembled the VFO and drilled mounting holes on each side of the slug bushings, just like what's in the DX-100. Then the ceramic coil forms were turned around and mounted with the new screw holes on the same side of the box as the slug bushings, identically to the DX-100. A complete re-alignment was required, but the end result was noticeably better stability in the 160m fundamental range, but little or no improvement in the 40m fundamental. I didn't further investigate the reason this modification worked less well on the 40m range, since I worked 160/80/40m using he 160m fundamental and used the 40m fundamental only for 20m. Another modification that further improved stability was to replace the ceramic trimmer capacitors with some tiny air variable trimmers I had in the junk box. I also replaced the tuning knob with a planetary drive mechanism to improve the tuning rate. After I replaced the VF-1 with the T-368 m.o. unit, it sat on my shelf for almost 20 years until I gave it to Derb, N3DRB (SK) when he stopped by here for a visit a few years ago, and have no idea of what ever became of it following his passing. All VFOs similar to the VF-1, including the Knight VFO and the Johnson 122 (and this includes the VFOs in the Ranger and Valiant), suffer a common problem; running the VFO straight through on 40m tends to result in CW chirp and sometimes sporadic frequency instability, probably due to unwanted feedback caused by rf leakage from the output of the transmitter back into the VFO. Mine produced much better stability on 40m using the 160m fundamental. The problem was never noticeable when running the VFO straight through with the 160m fundamental, but as I recall, numerous VFO articles from the pre-WWII "ECO" days up to recently, have recommended never running the VFO straight through on any band, but building an oscillator for half the lowest operating frequency and doubling or multiplying up to the transmit frequency. Don k4kyv From w0xv at bellsouth.net Sat Jul 16 09:01:13 2016 From: w0xv at bellsouth.net (Jeff May) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:01:13 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Heath Marauder Power Transfomer Message-ID: <001101d1df62$2280f200$6782d600$@bellsouth.net> My Marauder power transformer on my beautiful HX10 died..looking for one if anyone has a parts unit 73 Jeff W0XV From k4kyv at charter.net Sun Jul 17 16:26:56 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 15:26:56 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feet in height. Message-ID: <000901d1e069$908de020$b1a9a060$@charter.net> It looks like this one was sneaked in over us, but it has the potential of severely affecting amateur radio towers and antennas. I have seen no mention of this from ARRL, and the news just appeared a couple of days ago in discussions on QRZ.com and the Tower Talk reflector. New rules would require alternating orange and white paint and obstruction lighting on towers and poles over 50' tall. Apparently, meteorological testing towers and cellphone masts have been popping up unexpectedly in rural areas serviced by crop dusters, and this has become a concern not only to crop dusters, but other low-flying air traffic like medical evacuation and news-reporting helicopters. Towers, poles and masts between 50' and 200', below the current minimum height (except near an airport) of 200 feet, out in open fields, have resulted in collisions with the masts or their guy wires. As part of new FAA funding legislation, submitted as H.R.636, "In addition to medical reforms, the legislation requires the FAA to develop regulations for marking towers between 50 and 200 feet tall to improve their visibility to low-flying aircraft and help prevent accidents." NOTE: TO OPEN THE LINKS BELOW, YOU MAY HAVE TO MANUALLY COPY/PASTE THE URL INTO THE ADDRESS BAR OF YOUR BROWSER. THESE LISTS SOMETIMES ADD EXTRANEOUS LINE BREAKS TO LONG URLS, RENDERING LINKS INOPERATIVE. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/636/text#toc-H30D081 8F111541BFBEF0B8CAE5702C4B or https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr636/text This the organisation that has lobbied for the legislation: http://www.agaviation.org/Files/policyinitiatives/Advocacy%20Papers/Tower%20 Issue%20Paper%20FINAL.pdf Here is some of their recent propaganda: http://www.agaviation.org/files/policyinitiatives/Tower%20Public%20Outreach/ ad2.pdf http://www.agaviation.org/files/policyinitiatives/Tower%20Public%20Outreach/ ad6.pdf http://www.agaviation.org/towerspolicy The location definitions and the exclusions MAY let most amateurs out of the requirement, if the tower is located fairly close to the house and associated structures (the farmstead curtilage): (ii) EXCLUSIONS.-The term "covered tower" does not include any structure that- (I) is adjacent to a house, barn, electric utility station, or other building... Towers with a shelter (dog-house in broadcast engineering parlance) near the base to house the antenna tuning unit might be excluded. It all depends on how FAA bureaucrats define "adjacent", "building", "curtilage", etc. http://thelawdictionary.org/curtilage/ https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/curtilage http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/curtilage The motivating concern with this legislation is isolated towers out in the middle of a field on prime farm land that may be serviced by crop sprayers, which explains why the 'curtilage' of a house or farm outbuilding supposedly exempts the tower. The danger we face is the propensity of government agencies to enact 'one-size-fits-all' wording in laws and regulations, so that in fact they are still applicable in situations totally removed and unrelated to the purpose behind the legislation, typical of the government to use a back hoe where a garden spade would have done the job. It would be VERY expensive for most hams to paint their towers and mark them with obstruction lighting, or install obstruction markers on wire antennas. This has the potential of affecting those of us living in rural areas as severely HOAs and zoning ordinances are affecting hams in urban residential areas. It could particularly be a problem for 160m and 75m operators, since the most effective antennas are likely to exceed 50 feet in height. Don k4kyv Don k4kyv From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 17 18:15:12 2016 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 22:15:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] FAA Extension, Safety and Security Act of 2016 References: <376114101.642507.1468793712506.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <376114101.642507.1468793712506.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> As Don said, let's hope the bureaucrats don't make this a blanket 'applies to any and all' rule. If I have to paint my 50' tower orange and white, it will be the only painted thing an aircraft hits after running through the stand of 100ft pine trees that are around it. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 18:23:36 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:23:36 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FAA Extension, Safety and Security Act of 2016 In-Reply-To: <376114101.642507.1468793712506.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <376114101.642507.1468793712506.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <376114101.642507.1468793712506.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My dream has been to move to the sticks with a few acres next to maybe a corn field and and no neighbors and have a free standing tower maybe 100 feet tall, maybe a bit higher. If it has to be painted and lamped, or strobed, that will kill it for me, as I probably would barely be able to afford a used pyrod tower and the cost of putting it up. A tower under 50 feet would be a no go on the low bands. Hell, a TREE is taller. I wonder if this would only apply to new towers. Rob K5UJ On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 5:15 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > As Don said, let's hope the bureaucrats don't make this a blanket 'applies to any and all' rule. If I have to paint my 50' tower orange and white, it will be the only painted thing an aircraft hits after running through the stand of 100ft pine trees that are around it. > > Charlie, W4MEC in NC > From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 18:40:00 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:40:00 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feet in height. In-Reply-To: <000901d1e069$908de020$b1a9a060$@charter.net> References: <000901d1e069$908de020$b1a9a060$@charter.net> Message-ID: P.s. I found the answer to my question. No grandfathering. Existing towers have a year to become compliant if they fall into the non-excluded class. But, the other shoe has yet to drop. What we have is a bill signed into law. FAA still has to develop regulations so a process has yet to take place and hams and others have an opportunity to influence what becomes FAA regulation. 73 Rob K5UJ From w5jo at brightok.net Tue Jul 19 12:09:26 2016 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:09:26 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. In-Reply-To: <000901d1e069$908de020$b1a9a060$@charter.net> References: <000901d1e069$908de020$b1a9a060$@charter.net> Message-ID: <6991D562F0114592868C238059DE74A5@JimPC> I have sent a message to my congressman expressing my dismay with the tower provision of HR 636 but doubt it will do any good with him. He is typically a head in the sand type and won't buck the leadership. So I contacted my ARRL Division Director about it. In the discussion he, too, is a bit dismayed and the position of the ARRL is they have determined that the law will not apply because of the "adjacent" clause section in the bill. However we still have to deal with Rules and Regulations issued by the Administrator of the FAA and who knows what that person will do. There have been several attempts in Texas to pass a bill like this but it always failed. Evidently the Crop Dusters made an end run to Washington and will lobby the FAA to their point of view. My director is going to contact the legal counsel for the ARRL and ask for clarification. I will bet the author or his staff cannot do that because they do not really understand what they have done. So it behooves us to watch the FAA rules and regulations to see what they do. Given the number of those being issued by the administration, that will be a daunting task. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- From: Donald Chester Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:26 PM To: amradio at mailman.qth.net ; CW Reflector Subject: [AMRadio] "FAA Extension, Safety,and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. It looks like this one was sneaked in over us, but it has the potential of severely affecting amateur radio towers and antennas. I have seen no mention of this from ARRL, and the news just appeared a couple of days ago in discussions on QRZ.com and the Tower Talk reflector. New rules would require alternating orange and white paint and obstruction lighting on towers and poles over 50' tall. Apparently, meteorological testing towers and cellphone masts have been popping up unexpectedly in rural areas serviced by crop dusters, and this has become a concern not only to crop dusters, but other low-flying air traffic like medical evacuation and news-reporting helicopters. Towers, poles and masts between 50' and 200', below the current minimum height (except near an airport) of 200 feet, out in open fields, have resulted in collisions with the masts or their guy wires. As part of new FAA funding legislation, submitted as H.R.636, "In addition to medical reforms, the legislation requires the FAA to develop regulations for marking towers between 50 and 200 feet tall to improve their visibility to low-flying aircraft and help prevent accidents." Don k4kyv From JM at D8ALUS.NET Tue Jul 19 13:26:38 2016 From: JM at D8ALUS.NET (Jack) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:26:38 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] FW: "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. References: <000901d1e069$908de020$b1a9a060$@charter.net> <6991D562F0114592868C238059DE74A5@JimPC> Message-ID: <004001d1e1e2$b54f0bd0$1fed2370$@D8ALUS.NET> This will be unpopular in this forum, but here goes.................. As an amateur radio operator for close to sixty years and a pilot for over forty years I can appreciate both sides of the argument. For the sake of discussion, let's assume both activities are hobbies and that the hobbyists in each harbor beliefs that their hobby is the more important. Of course, that is an invalid premise since towers have a potential detrimental impact on non-hobbyist aviation interests. Let's ignore that aspect for now. The lack of a tower may make communications difficult or impossible. An unlighted tower can kill people. Which is more important? From my perspective, the aviation side of the equation wins - hands down. -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of w5jo at brightok.net Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 12:09 PM To: Donald Chester ; amradio at mailman.qth.net; CW Reflector Subject: Re: [AMRadio] "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. I have sent a message to my congressman expressing my dismay with the tower provision of HR 636 but doubt it will do any good with him. He is typically a head in the sand type and won't buck the leadership. So I contacted my ARRL Division Director about it. In the discussion he, too, is a bit dismayed and the position of the ARRL is they have determined that the law will not apply because of the "adjacent" clause section in the bill. However we still have to deal with Rules and Regulations issued by the Administrator of the FAA and who knows what that person will do. There have been several attempts in Texas to pass a bill like this but it always failed. Evidently the Crop Dusters made an end run to Washington and will lobby the FAA to their point of view. My director is going to contact the legal counsel for the ARRL and ask for clarification. I will bet the author or his staff cannot do that because they do not really understand what they have done. So it behooves us to watch the FAA rules and regulations to see what they do. Given the number of those being issued by the administration, that will be a daunting task. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- From: Donald Chester Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:26 PM To: amradio at mailman.qth.net ; CW Reflector Subject: [AMRadio] "FAA Extension, Safety,and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. It looks like this one was sneaked in over us, but it has the potential of severely affecting amateur radio towers and antennas. I have seen no mention of this from ARRL, and the news just appeared a couple of days ago in discussions on QRZ.com and the Tower Talk reflector. New rules would require alternating orange and white paint and obstruction lighting on towers and poles over 50' tall. Apparently, meteorological testing towers and cellphone masts have been popping up unexpectedly in rural areas serviced by crop dusters, and this has become a concern not only to crop dusters, but other low-flying air traffic like medical evacuation and news-reporting helicopters. Towers, poles and masts between 50' and 200', below the current minimum height (except near an airport) of 200 feet, out in open fields, have resulted in collisions with the masts or their guy wires. As part of new FAA funding legislation, submitted as H.R.636, "In addition to medical reforms, the legislation requires the FAA to develop regulations for marking towers between 50 and 200 feet tall to improve their visibility to low-flying aircraft and help prevent accidents." Don k4kyv ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jm at d8alus.net From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 13:39:15 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:39:15 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FW: "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. In-Reply-To: <004001d1e1e2$b54f0bd0$1fed2370$@D8ALUS.NET> References: <000901d1e069$908de020$b1a9a060$@charter.net> <6991D562F0114592868C238059DE74A5@JimPC> <004001d1e1e2$b54f0bd0$1fed2370$@D8ALUS.NET> Message-ID: But Jack, no one thinks a pilot should be put at risk for radio. It is simply that what is being advocated is not necessary because there are other better ways, such as simply requiring the weather tower / wind tower folks to give a 30 day notice before putting up a tower in the middle of a corn field. That gives FAA time to issue a NOTAM, put the tower on sectionals and so on. Not to diminish the problem but hams have been caught up in what is almost entirely or is entirely a weather or wind tower hazard problem. If they'd simply exempt ham towers or specifically say the laws apply only to wind and weather measurement towers there would be no problem, at least for us. 73 Rob K5UJ On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Jack wrote: > This will be unpopular in this forum, but here goes.................. > > As an amateur radio operator for close to sixty years and a pilot for over > forty years I can appreciate both sides of the argument. For the sake of > discussion, let's assume both activities are hobbies and that the hobbyists > in each harbor beliefs that their hobby is the more important. Of course, > that is an invalid premise since towers have a potential detrimental impact > on non-hobbyist aviation interests. Let's ignore that aspect for now. > > The lack of a tower may make communications difficult or impossible. An > unlighted tower can kill people. Which is more important? From my > perspective, the aviation side of the equation wins - hands down. > > From k4kyv at charter.net Tue Jul 19 13:45:25 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:45:25 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FW: "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feet in height. Message-ID: <001d01d1e1e5$54b232e0$fe1698a0$@charter.net> > On Behalf Of > Jack > As an amateur radio operator for close to sixty years and a pilot for over forty > years I can appreciate both sides of the argument. For the sake of discussion, > let's assume both activities are hobbies and that the hobbyists in each harbor > beliefs that their hobby is the more important. Of course, that is an invalid > premise since towers have a potential detrimental impact on non-hobbyist > aviation interests. Let's ignore that aspect for now. > > The lack of a tower may make communications difficult or impossible. An > unlighted tower can kill people. Which is more important? From my > perspective, the aviation side of the equation wins - hands down. Precisely the reason why aircraft in most situations are required to stay at least 500 ft. above the ground, and why towers 200 ft. and higher are supposed to be marked and lighted. That has worked with minimal mishaps since the dawn of aviation and radio, which have pretty much developed and grown over the same time period together. Don k4kyv From w5jo at brightok.net Tue Jul 19 13:47:36 2016 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:47:36 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. In-Reply-To: <003601d1e1e2$0d9c2350$28d469f0$@D8ALUS.NET> References: <000901d1e069$908de020$b1a9a060$@charter.net> <6991D562F0114592868C238059DE74A5@JimPC> <003601d1e1e2$0d9c2350$28d469f0$@D8ALUS.NET> Message-ID: <4568AB3B12DE477C9E4EFC47FCDB49AD@JimPC> With all due respect Jack. If you are a pilot then you know the rules about minimum altitude and it is not below 200 ft. over a "congested" area. Any pilot who flies that low is courting disaster in may realms, not including towers. Engine failure between 50 and 200 ft. is almost always fatal. By the way, some FAA inspectors consider a barb wire fence creates a congested area and a tower certainly creates one. There are common sense restrictions near airports of various runway lengths, under 3200 ft. the slope is 50 to 1 and over that runway length is it 100 to 1 for tower heights. Even helicopters must meet the minimum altitude restrictions. This law is aimed at a very few pilots in an increasingly smaller number. Most farmers have gone to ground based chemical application over aircraft, so why regulate something with this broad an implication nationwide for so few who have options to avoid the problem. Then we look at the incidents of tower strike over the past few decades and find that it almost does not exist. The movement in Texas was brought forth by the widow of a crop duster who hit a 40 ft. TV tower adjacent to the rural house owner of the field he was working. He knew, as do all crop dusters, to preview your application area at a safe altitude before starting application. He didn't do that. A blanket restriction like this is unnecessary. Most strikes like this involve crop dusters and, if they do their job properly, a tower is not a danger. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. This will be unpopular in this forum, but here goes.................. As an amateur radio operator for close to sixty years and a pilot for over forty years I can appreciate both sides of the argument. For the sake of discussion, let's assume both activities are hobbies and that the hobbyists in each harbor beliefs that their hobby is the more important. Of course, that is an invalid premise since towers have a potential detrimental impact on non-hobbyist aviation interests. Let's ignore that aspect for now. The lack of a tower may make communications difficult or impossible. An unlighted tower can kill people. Which is more important? From my perspective, the aviation side of the equation wins - hands down. From johnmb at nc.rr.com Tue Jul 19 17:04:04 2016 From: johnmb at nc.rr.com (john) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:04:04 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] FAA extension Message-ID: I'll go write some letters to the right people, but I won't comply regardless. They can blow it out their backside. Enough is enough John K5MO -- From edwmullin at aol.com Tue Jul 19 17:32:13 2016 From: edwmullin at aol.com (Ed) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:32:13 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] FW: "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to affect towers and masts over 50 feet in height. In-Reply-To: <001d01d1e1e5$54b232e0$fe1698a0$@charter.net> References: <001d01d1e1e5$54b232e0$fe1698a0$@charter.net> Message-ID: <28FF3EE5-31BB-467D-9079-ECE8A3AEEDF8@aol.com> The pilots at risk are Agpilots. Crop dusters should as a rule familiarize themselves with the area they're operating in. They have a lot of hazards besides antennas and guy wires. Honestly the real threat here isn't from the complaints from a crop duster, but from the disgruntled neighbor who thinks a 100' tower is kicking up his view. Then it become a beurocrat appling his 'authority'. Which experience has shown they won't apply logic or common sense in the use of. 73 Ed God Bless Ed/KB1HYS From w5jo at brightok.net Tue Jul 19 17:35:30 2016 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:35:30 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation Message-ID: I just received this response from my ARRL Director. You all might be interested and provide support if you have any influence with the FAA. Jim Jim Here is the "official" response. TKG is our lobbying firm and we might benefit from their assistance when the FAA writes the regs. David Subject: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation MEMORANDUM To: Officers, Directors and Vice Directors Copy: Sean Kutzko; Rick Lindquist From: Chris Imlay, W3KD Re: FAA Reauthorization Act, H.R. 636; Painting and Lighting of Short Towers Date: July 19, 2016 _____________________________________________________________________________ Greetings. Briefly at the Board meeting I reported the recent passage of H.R. 636, the FAA Reauthorization Act. We were blindsided by the provision in this Bill instructing FAA to enact rules similar to statutory provisions that we have been dealing with at the State level which we collectively refer to as ?crop duster? statutes. States, principally western States, have in the past few years enacted statutes attempting to protect meteorological evaluation towers. These are between 50 and 200 feet. They are typically located in rural agricultural areas and they tend to be very low-profile towers, hard for crop dusting aircraft to see in certain circumstances. We had been of the view that these statutes were preempted by FAA?s exclusive authority over aviation safety, even though, in areas not near airports or heliports, FAA did not typically regulate towers less than 200 feet in height. We have made some efforts with the help of TKG to ask FAA to clarify its jurisdictional intent but they have been reluctant to do so. Now, they don?t have to, because Congress has instructed FAA to develop regulations to protect these towers. This is good and bad at once; it is good because this will stem the tide of State cropduster statutes, some of which exempt Amateur antennas and some of which do not. Some of the State statutes are more onerous than what Congress has just enacted. On the downside, this legislation does not exempt Amateur Radio. Had we heard about it earlier, we might well have been able to influence an Amateur Radio exemption through contacts on the Hill that TKG, and especially good contacts that Frank McCarthy has in this area. It is unclear why our legislative monitoring key word service, which ARRL HQ deploys, did not tip us off to this earlier. That said, however, the legislation is not that bad as regards application to Amateur antennas, and we will also have an opportunity to influence the final FAA rules by participating in the rulemaking process. We will soon have meetings with FAA which will help clarify their intentions and bring our concerns to FAA ahead of time. The following is a summary of the Bill?s provisions regarding tower marking: 1. Within 1 year after the date of enactment of the Act (i.e. by next July), FAA must issue regulations to require the marking of the towers covered by the legislation. 2. The marking required will be painting and lighting in accordance with current FAA guidelines (i.e. the Advisory Circular issued December 4, 2015). 3. The new rules cover towers constructed on or after the effective date of the rules, and towers constructed before the effective date of the new rules will have to come into compliance within a year after the date of the new rules. 4. Covered towers are those which are ?self-standing or supported by guy wires and ground anchors?; which are 10 feet or less in diameter at the above-ground base, excluding concrete footings; are between 50 feet above ground level at the highest point and not more than 200 feet above ground level; which has accessory facilities on which an antenna, sensor, camera, meteorological instrument, or other equipment is mounted; and is located outside the boundaries of an incorporated city or town; or on land that is undeveloped; or used for agricultural purposes. 5. Towers that are excluded are those: (a) ?adjacent? to a house, barn, electric utility station, or other building; (b) within the curtilage of a farmstead; (c) which support electric utility transmission or distribution lines; (d) wind-powered electrical generators with a rotor blade radius that exceeds 6 feet; or (e) street lights erected or maintained by a Federal, State, local, or tribal entity. 6. The term ?undeveloped? land means a defined geographic area where the FAA determines low-flying aircraft are operated on a routine basis, such as low-lying forested areas with predominant tree cover under 200 feet and pasture and range land. 7. FAA will develop a database that contains the location and height of each covered tower which can be used only for aviation safety purposes. It may not be disclosed for purposes other than aviation safety. While it is a fair concern that exemption language such as the meaning of the word ?adjacent? to residences and buildings is undefined, the Bill says that the FAA will provide a definition. We do not anticipate that a large number of Amateur towers will be subject to these rules but there is a good deal of concern about it. We also have an NTSB document isolating the problem calling for a solution as being limited to meteorological evaluation towers. We will provide a briefing memo for inquiries you receive in the near term. Until then feel free to use the above summary of the Bill as material for any response you need to provide. Also, feel free to refer inquiries to Dan Henderson. 73, Chris W3KD -- Christopher D. Imlay Booth, Freret & Imlay, LLC 14356 Cape May Road Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6011 (301) 384-5525 telephone (301) 384-6384 facsimile W3KD at ARRL.ORG From ars.w5omr at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 17:54:08 2016 From: ars.w5omr at gmail.com (ARS W5OMR) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:54:08 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So, "adjacent to" could mean on the same property that which is occupied by a building or structure. Up to 200' on your 10 acre lot should be sufficient, right? > 5. Towers that are excluded are those: (a) ?adjacent? to a house, barn, electric utility station, or other building; (b) within the curtilage of a farmstead; (c) which support electric utility transmission or distribution lines; (d) wind-powered electrical generators with a rotor blade radius that exceeds 6 feet; or (e) street lights erected or maintained by a Federal, State, local, or tribal entity. From W2xj at w2xj.net Tue Jul 19 18:24:52 2016 From: W2xj at w2xj.net (W2XJ) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:24:52 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <73656564-1909-434F-AF77-0B5B1418E230@w2xj.net> Before people get too hysterical about this, the following is taken from another discussion group: read the bill - link here (watch as usual the wrap it's a pdf file). https://www.congress.gov/crec/2016/07/11/CREC-2016-07-11-pt1-PgH4624-3.pdf Lots of exemptions - page 4 is the start of the pertinent language. Is it next to a building - exempt Is it in an incorporated city or town - exempt Is it located on developed land - exempt Is it more than 10 feet in diameter - exempt The target appears to be structures that are out in the middle of a farmer's field or undeveloped land* - If it's got a building next to it* (transmitter building/shack) it's probably exempt under the "other building." language. * "...is adjacent to a house, barn, electric utility station, or other building." * The term ??undeveloped?? means a defined geographic area where the Administrator determines low-flying aircraft are operated on a routine basis, such as low-lying forested areas with predominant tree cover under 200 feet and pasture and range land. Sent from my iPad > On Jul 19, 2016, at 5:54 PM, ARS W5OMR wrote: > > So, "adjacent to" could mean on the same property that which is occupied by > a building or structure. Up to 200' on your 10 acre lot should be > sufficient, right? > >> 5. Towers that are excluded are those: (a) ?adjacent? to a house, barn, > electric utility station, or other building; (b) within the curtilage of a > farmstead; (c) which support electric utility transmission or distribution > lines; (d) wind-powered electrical generators with a rotor blade radius > that exceeds 6 feet; or (e) street lights erected or maintained by a > Federal, State, local, or tribal entity. > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w2xj at w2xj.net From w5jo at brightok.net Tue Jul 19 19:27:03 2016 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:27:03 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This definition will depend greatly on the interpretation by the FAA lawyers and the Administrator's staff. That is what is frightening. Jim W5JO From: ARS W5OMR So, "adjacent to" could mean on the same property that which is occupied by a building or structure. Up to 200' on your 10 acre lot should be sufficient, right? > 5. Towers that are excluded are those: (a) ?adjacent? to a house, barn, electric utility station, or other building; (b) within the curtilage of a farmstead; (c) which support electric utility transmission or distribution lines; (d) wind-powered electrical generators with a rotor blade radius that exceeds 6 feet; or (e) street lights erected or maintained by a Federal, State, local, or tribal entity. From w2xj at w2xj.net Tue Jul 19 19:37:37 2016 From: w2xj at w2xj.net (W2xj) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:37:37 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3453AF35-0435-4D1D-B6A8-ECF9623AC68E@w2xj.net> But unless you live on a farm, what difference does it make? Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 19, 2016, at 19:27, wrote: > > This definition will depend greatly on the interpretation by the FAA lawyers and the Administrator's staff. That is what is frightening. > > Jim > W5JO > > From: ARS W5OMR > > So, "adjacent to" could mean on the same property that which is occupied by a building or structure. Up to 200' on your 10 acre lot should be sufficient, right? > >> 5. Towers that are excluded are those: (a) ?adjacent? to a house, barn, electric utility station, or other building; (b) within the curtilage of a farmstead; (c) which support electric utility transmission or distribution lines; (d) wind-powered electrical generators with a rotor blade radius that exceeds 6 feet; or (e) street lights erected or maintained by a Federal, State, local, or tribal entity. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w2xj at w2xj.net From w5jv at hotmail.com Tue Jul 19 20:23:57 2016 From: w5jv at hotmail.com (Doug Hensley) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 00:23:57 +0000 Subject: [AMRadio] Cart Machines available (both GATES & Collins) Message-ID: I have some vintage cart machines that used the 8 track size cue-ing carts for spot work. These were from AM stations that pulled them for remodeling or for PC technology or were shut down to run FM & CD. If your AM set up is stable and you need another project to occupy your time, get in touch. No free lunch; no prices are even set but I can supply a few pictures to the seriously minded if you will tell me what facilities you would be interested in. These could be used to call CQ, deliver first response station information: QTH, name, gear, etc. prior to going live on the mic. QSO via private email I think is best if you are interested. I may not be able to respond immediately but I will get back to you. 73, Doug W5JV From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 20:41:14 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:41:14 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: <3453AF35-0435-4D1D-B6A8-ECF9623AC68E@w2xj.net> References: <3453AF35-0435-4D1D-B6A8-ECF9623AC68E@w2xj.net> Message-ID: There are lots of hams on farms. Here is the key key thing that as I see it, determines a lot about how bad this is for now: "within the curtilage of a farmstead" We need to find out how that is defined in a specific way. This is from wikipedia: In law, the curtilage of a house or dwelling is the land immediately surrounding it, including any closely associated buildings and structures, but excluding any associated "open fields beyond", and also excluding any closely associated buildings, structures, or divisions that contain the separate intimate activities of their own respective occupants with those occupying residents being persons other than those residents of the house or dwelling of which the building is associated. It delineates the boundary within which a home owner can have a reasonable expectation of privacy and where "intimate home activities" take place. It is an important legal concept in certain jurisdictions for the understanding of search and seizure, conveyancing of real property, burglary, trespass, and land use planning. In urban properties, the location of the curtilage may be evident from the position of fences, wall and similar; within larger properties it may be a matter of some legal debate as to where the private area ends and the "open fields" start Rob K5UJ From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 20:45:44 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:45:44 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: References: <3453AF35-0435-4D1D-B6A8-ECF9623AC68E@w2xj.net> Message-ID: Jim thanks for passing along the response from your director. I hate to say it but I am not all that optimistic, but I certainly hope I wind up being pleasantly surprised by an exemption. 73 Rob K5UJ From k4kyv at charter.net Wed Jul 20 13:24:07 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 12:24:07 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001001d1e2ab$85c85a00$91590e00$@charter.net> > This definition will depend greatly on the interpretation by the FAA lawyers > and the Administrator's staff. That is what is frightening. > > Jim > W5JO "Career civil servants" as they like to call themselves, speak and write a different version of the English language than the rest of us do . Their definitions and meanings of words aren't necessarily the same as what's in the dictionary. Imlay says the ARRL was 'blindsided' by this just like the rest of us. I suspect so was the cell phone industry; it's not going to be cheap for them to paint, light and maintain all those 100' monopoles. They have deeper pockets than the ARRL or the broadcast industry, so they might be able lobby for changes, although there is no guarantee that any of their proposed changes would benefit us. Last week, the bill passed in the Senate by a vote of 89-4 and passed unanimously in the House. Obama signed it this past Friday. http://unmanned-aerial.com/obama-signs-faa-extension-safety-and-security-act-of-2016/ (you'll probably have to copy/paste this url without the line break into your browser) This was quietly pushed through unannounced as fine print in the annual routine FAA annual appropriations bill, and given that this strongly divided congress can't agree or compromise on anything the least bit controversial, the fact that it passed unanimously in the House says that few, if any of the representatives who voted, actually read the bill. This looks like the result of a joint lobbying effort by crop dusters and drone aircraft interests, and they have kept it under wraps so that no-one else even suspected anything was in the works, even catching the cell phone industry by surprise; surely they would have counter-lobbied hard in congress and made a big issue about this had they known, since it affects them a lot more than it does hams and small broadcast operations. Don k4kyv From ars.w5omr at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 09:54:14 2016 From: ars.w5omr at gmail.com (ARS W5OMR) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:54:14 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Heath Marauder Power Transfomer In-Reply-To: <001101d1df62$2280f200$6782d600$@bellsouth.net> References: <001101d1df62$2280f200$6782d600$@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Whats the voltage rating on it, Jeff? On Jul 16, 2016 8:01 AM, "Jeff May" wrote: > > My Marauder power transformer on my beautiful HX10 died..looking for one if > anyone has a parts unit From k4kyv at charter.net Thu Jul 21 13:56:31 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 12:56:31 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation Message-ID: <001a01d1e379$36cf0560$a46d1020$@charter.net> > This definition will depend greatly on the interpretation by the FAA lawyers > and the Administrator's staff. That is what is frightening. > > Jim > W5JO This legislation apparently was the culmination of a joint lobbying effort by crop dusters and drone aircraft interests; they managed to keep it swept so well under the rug that no-one else even suspected anything was in the works. It was sneaked in as an attachment to a piece of legislation that was assured of passage, a routine annual re-appropriations bill for the FAA. Apparently it caught not only the ARRL, but the cell phone industry by surprise; surely the latter would have lobbied to high hell in congress and made this a major issue if they had known, since it probably affects them more than it does hams or broadcasters. Painting and lighting those 100' monopoles won't be cheap. Once the PCIA - The Wireless Infrastructure Association - gets its lobbying wheels in motion, the Act will very likely be modified. Wireless has congress' ears at present given they're writing checks to fill the federal deficit. Crop dusters won't realise the 'dust' they have stirred up until they've been blown back to reality. ARRL and NAB need to gear up to fight the guyed tower aspect. This is not the end of it. We have multiple aspects to be concerned with. (1) the Act itself, (2) eventual FAA rules and (3) FCC rules. It is very unlikely that the FCC will leave it up to the FAA to attend this matter; they will get in on the action as well. Our present regulation of towers near airports and towers over 200' tall lie not only in the FAA rules, but in Part 97 of the FCC rules as well. Don k4kyv From oldrotorheadsarge at outlook.com Fri Jul 22 18:55:39 2016 From: oldrotorheadsarge at outlook.com (Robert Bethman) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 22:55:39 +0000 Subject: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: <001001d1e2ab$85c85a00$91590e00$@charter.net> References: <001001d1e2ab$85c85a00$91590e00$@charter.net> Message-ID: I will say that it isn't reasonable to consider Drone Aircraft Interests. Drones cannot detect lighting, a big bunch cannot differentiate colors. It takes some $2K and up ones to have full color ability, and lighting is still an issue. The fact of the matter regarding FAA regulations SPECIFICALLY DISALLOW NIGHT FLIGHT! Regards, Bob Bethman, FAA Registered UAS owner. -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Donald Chester Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:24 PM To: 'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service' Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Fw: Fwd: [arrl-odv:25480] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation > This definition will depend greatly on the interpretation by the FAA > lawyers and the Administrator's staff. That is what is frightening. > > Jim > W5JO "Career civil servants" as they like to call themselves, speak and write a different version of the English language than the rest of us do . Their definitions and meanings of words aren't necessarily the same as what's in the dictionary. Imlay says the ARRL was 'blindsided' by this just like the rest of us. I suspect so was the cell phone industry; it's not going to be cheap for them to paint, light and maintain all those 100' monopoles. They have deeper pockets than the ARRL or the broadcast industry, so they might be able lobby for changes, although there is no guarantee that any of their proposed changes would benefit us. Last week, the bill passed in the Senate by a vote of 89-4 and passed unanimously in the House. Obama signed it this past Friday. http://unmanned-aerial.com/obama-signs-faa-extension-safety-and-security-act-of-2016/ (you'll probably have to copy/paste this url without the line break into your browser) This was quietly pushed through unannounced as fine print in the annual routine FAA annual appropriations bill, and given that this strongly divided congress can't agree or compromise on anything the least bit controversial, the fact that it passed unanimously in the House says that few, if any of the representatives who voted, actually read the bill. This looks like the result of a joint lobbying effort by crop dusters and drone aircraft interests, and they have kept it under wraps so that no-one else even suspected anything was in the works, even catching the cell phone industry by surprise; surely they would have counter-lobbied hard in congress and made a big issue about this had they known, since it affects them a lot more than it does hams and small broadcast operations. Don k4kyv ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to oldrotorheadsarge at outlook.com From oldrotorheadsarge at outlook.com Fri Jul 22 19:10:08 2016 From: oldrotorheadsarge at outlook.com (Robert Bethman) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 23:10:08 +0000 Subject: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation Message-ID: All due consideration is also that cellphone towers/poles have a large number of them NOW disguised as TREES. They will be heavily impacted with those that are well over 130 feet tall. This has been done in an attempt to appease the public so that they aren't such an eyesore in neighborhoods. There is one just up the road from me. Although it has a "tree appearance", the darn thing is still an eyesore. Transmissions in the microwave spectrum are badly affected by Acrylic paint. [ I have begun the path to Amateur Radio Microwave. ] Regards, Bob Bethman From k4kyv at charter.net Sat Jul 23 20:10:14 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 19:10:14 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation Message-ID: <001701d1e53f$c0ab30c0$42019240$@charter.net> > All due consideration is also that cellphone towers/poles have a large > number of them NOW disguised as TREES. > > This has been done in an attempt to appease the public so that they aren't > such an eyesore in neighborhoods. > > There is one just up the road from me. Although it has a "tree appearance", > the darn thing is still an eyesore. > Regards, Bob Bethman > The ones who complain the loudest about those 'unsightly' cell phone towers probably walk (or drive) round all day with a mobile phone glued to their ear or their eyes glued to a smartphone screen. Don k4kyv From oldrotorheadsarge at outlook.com Sat Jul 23 20:12:49 2016 From: oldrotorheadsarge at outlook.com (Robert Bethman) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:12:49 +0000 Subject: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: <001701d1e53f$c0ab30c0$42019240$@charter.net> References: <001701d1e53f$c0ab30c0$42019240$@charter.net> Message-ID: This one is stuck directly next to a long row of houses, and I am sure those folks don't want the dang thing there no matter how it looks. Regards, Bob Bethman -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Donald Chester Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 8:10 PM To: 'AM Radio List' Subject: Re: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation > All due consideration is also that cellphone towers/poles have a large > number of them NOW disguised as TREES. > > This has been done in an attempt to appease the public so that they > aren't such an eyesore in neighborhoods. > > There is one just up the road from me. Although it has a "tree appearance", > the darn thing is still an eyesore. > Regards, Bob Bethman > The ones who complain the loudest about those 'unsightly' cell phone towers probably walk (or drive) round all day with a mobile phone glued to their ear or their eyes glued to a smartphone screen. Don k4kyv From wa1rkt at comcast.net Sat Jul 23 22:32:57 2016 From: wa1rkt at comcast.net (Rick Poole) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 22:32:57 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Cell towers (was FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation) In-Reply-To: References: <001701d1e53f$c0ab30c0$42019240$@charter.net> Message-ID: <20160724023256.64F031E154D@www3.rkt-tech.com> At 08:12 PM 7/23/2016, Robert Bethman wrote: >This one is stuck directly next to a long row of houses, and I am >sure those folks don't want the dang thing there no matter how it looks. Around here (southern NH), lots and lots of people are giving up their landlines and going all-cellular for their phone service. Funny how the opposition to new cell towers just melts away.... Rick WA1RKT From k4kyv at charter.net Sun Jul 24 14:23:28 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 13:23:28 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Cell towers (was FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation) In-Reply-To: <20160724023256.64F031E154D@www3.rkt-tech.com> References: <001701d1e53f$c0ab30c0$42019240$@charter.net> <20160724023256.64F031E154D@www3.rkt-tech.com> Message-ID: <000601d1e5d8$79f21560$6dd64020$@charter.net> > Around here (southern NH), lots and lots of people are giving up their > landlines and going all-cellular for their phone service. > > Funny how the opposition to new cell towers just melts away.... > > Rick WA1RKT Phone carriers are now offering so-called 'home cellular' service, where the customer gets to keep his landline number and even his wired house phones. Instead of to the incoming copper pair, the in-house wiring is connected to a small box with antenna and operates off the cellular system, just like a regular mobile phone. Some of these are excellent quality, and sound pretty much identical to the old landline phone. I suspect this is the wave of the future for land line telephones. Telephone companies are trying to phase out copper pair land lines, and I'd bet their plan is to eventually replace all the copper pairs with these. Locally, a traditional land line has gone up in price to something like $90 a month, while the same carrier offers home cellular for about $20 a month (plus the usual hidden taxes and fees). The scheme is not to force anyone to convert, but to make landlines so expensive no-one will use them. It is already very difficult to get landline service to newly developed housing plots. For those of us old enough to remember, think back to the days of open-wire telephone lines with poles, cross-arms and the pretty glass insulators you now see for sale in antique shops. In larger cities, some of those telephone poles had a dozen or more cross-arms and over 100 separate #10 wires strung from pole to pole. Alongside most highways were similar poles, but usually only two or three cross-arms. In any case, after an ice or wind storm, those things were usually a real mess to straighten out. Open-wire telephone lines were mostly phased out in the late 50s and early 60s, but they can still occasionally be seen in a few rural areas to-day, some abandoned as some still in use. If people in their neat, identical-looking houses in well-manicured suburban developments think present-day cell towers and ham antennas are an eyesore, they should browse through a few old photographs and see what neighbourhoods looked like back then. Don k4kyv From bguyger at yahoo.com Sun Jul 24 14:54:56 2016 From: bguyger at yahoo.com (Bill Guyger) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 18:54:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] Cell towers (was FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation) In-Reply-To: <000601d1e5d8$79f21560$6dd64020$@charter.net> References: <001701d1e53f$c0ab30c0$42019240$@charter.net> <20160724023256.64F031E154D@www3.rkt-tech.com> <000601d1e5d8$79f21560$6dd64020$@charter.net> Message-ID: <871420280.3722247.1469386496606.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I know Verizon sold all its assets that were not wireless to Frontier recently. Service which was marginal has gotten worse. I had to wait 7 days for a service tech to show up to repair a POTS line at one of my transmitter sites. It was so noisy I couldn't "talk" to the Burk remote control, then it went permanently busy I had to go out to the site one stormy night and diagnose the problem and try to get it at least usable which I did by removing the carbon surge suppressors from the demark (bad idea I know) because even that hi Z load was enough to busy the line out. I reported the problem that night and it was 7 days before the tech showed up, and he was on loan from the construction division. As far as people not wanting the infrastructure for their modern conveniences, to quote an old friend, "You can't F with Physics"!Bill AD5OL From: Donald Chester To: AMradio at mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Cell towers (was FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation) > Around here (southern NH), lots and lots of people are giving up their > landlines and going all-cellular for their phone service. > > Funny how the opposition to new cell towers just melts away.... > > Rick WA1RKT Phone carriers are now offering? so-called 'home cellular' service, where the customer gets to keep his landline number and even his wired house phones.? Instead of to the incoming copper pair, the in-house wiring is connected to a small box with antenna and operates off the cellular system, just like a regular mobile phone.? Some of these are excellent quality, and sound pretty much identical to the old landline phone. I? suspect this is the wave of the future for land line telephones. Telephone companies are trying to phase out copper pair land lines, and I'd bet their plan is to eventually replace all the copper pairs with these. Locally, a traditional land line has gone up in price to something like $90 a month, while the same carrier offers home cellular for about $20 a month (plus the usual hidden taxes and fees). The scheme is not to force anyone to convert, but to make landlines so expensive no-one will use them.? It is already very difficult to get landline service to newly developed housing plots. For those of us old enough to remember, think back to the days of open-wire telephone lines with poles, cross-arms and the pretty glass insulators you now see for sale in antique shops.? In larger cities, some of those telephone poles had a dozen or more cross-arms and over 100 separate #10 wires strung from pole to pole.? Alongside most highways were similar poles, but usually only two or three cross-arms.? In any case, after an ice or wind storm, those things were usually a real mess to straighten out. Open-wire telephone lines were mostly phased out in the late 50s and early 60s, but they can still occasionally be seen in a few rural areas to-day, some abandoned as some still in use.? If people in their neat, identical-looking houses in well-manicured suburban developments think present-day cell towers and ham antennas are an eyesore, they should browse through a few old photographs and see what neighbourhoods? looked like back then. Don k4kyv ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net/ AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com From oldrotorheadsarge at outlook.com Sun Jul 24 15:05:56 2016 From: oldrotorheadsarge at outlook.com (Robert Bethman) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 19:05:56 +0000 Subject: [AMRadio] Cell towers (was FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation) In-Reply-To: <871420280.3722247.1469386496606.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <001701d1e53f$c0ab30c0$42019240$@charter.net> <20160724023256.64F031E154D@www3.rkt-tech.com> <000601d1e5d8$79f21560$6dd64020$@charter.net> <871420280.3722247.1469386496606.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here in Manassas, VA Verizon has shifted ALL copper lines to fiber optic service. We still keep the house phone even though both the XYL and I have cell phones. To use them in the house we connect to the Verizon Wi-Fi router. It keeps the data usage way down. This system has a battery backup that will last for 8 hours in the event of power loss. I weaseled the Installation Tech out of an additional battery to swap in and out. This way I have at least 16 hours of use. That being said, it is extremely rare for this neighborhood to have power outages. All power here is underground. We used to use Comcrap for our ISP. They got way out of whack with charges and pathetic service. We went with Verizon for our ISP and everything runs geat! We use AT&T for cell use. Not our choice, as our daughter has us on her plan. It has been great! Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Guyger via AMRadio Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 2:55 PM To: Donald Chester ; AMradio at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Cell towers (was FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation) I know Verizon sold all its assets that were not wireless to Frontier recently. Service which was marginal has gotten worse. I had to wait 7 days for a service tech to show up to repair a POTS line at one of my transmitter sites. It was so noisy I couldn't "talk" to the Burk remote control, then it went permanently busy I had to go out to the site one stormy night and diagnose the problem and try to get it at least usable which I did by removing the carbon surge suppressors from the demark (bad idea I know) because even that hi Z load was enough to busy the line out. I reported the problem that night and it was 7 days before the tech showed up, and he was on loan from the construction division. As far as people not wanting the infrastructure for their modern conveniences, to quote an old friend, "You can't F with Physics"!Bill AD5OL From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 24 15:24:10 2016 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 19:24:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From Ron.K3PID at sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 24 19:50:03 2016 From: Ron.K3PID at sbcglobal.net (K3PID) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 18:50:03 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6333BCBB035A4D13846033B9F09F2C94@Zeus> Hi Charlie! I got rid of the landline about 3 years ago when the AT&T bill was almost $75 and the only people who called me on it were telemarketers. I agree that the quality of the cellphone audio is very poor but it has nothing to do with the microphone rather mostly because it is 100% digitized with some pretty stiff filters applied. Another factor is that it isn't a one-to-one connection as was the landline. The digital voice data is sent and received much like a network where all is time sliced and shared so you get bits and pieces at times... On the bright side, there are very few conversations on my cellphone that I care much about the quality of the audio. That's why most of my "phone" exchanges are as text messages... And, I have an extra $60/month to spend on my hobbies... hi hi Ron K3PID -----Original Message----- From: CL in NC via AMRadio Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 2:24 PM To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. Charlie, W4MEC in NC ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ron.k3pid at sbcglobal.net From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 07:46:45 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 06:46:45 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for U-verse go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their land line around here and regret it. And it is hard to get it back once you let it go. Give me the copper twisted pair. My WeCo model 302 in the shack works great. 73 Rob K5UJ On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:24 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 08:17:51 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 07:17:51 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation In-Reply-To: References: <001701d1e53f$c0ab30c0$42019240$@charter.net> Message-ID: I had family visiting over the weekend and we went for a drive out west of my QTH yesterday afternoon. Off to the left of the road I saw a 100 foot free standing tower with a wind propeller at the top. I thought to myself, that guy is going to have to paint and lamp that thing, then I remembered that in the congressional bill, there is an exclusion for towers with windmill propellers over a certain length. As if, that bigger propeller will magically prevent a plane from flying into it. You can tell the fixes were in on that legislation. Rob K5UJ From W4AWM at aol.com Mon Jul 25 10:34:53 2016 From: W4AWM at aol.com (W4AWM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:34:53 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell Message-ID: <4c7d08.74d8fc57.44c77d8d@aol.com> Ditto. Once FIOS gets your copper, you can EVER get it back and your inbox and snail mailbox plus your phone get deluged with incessant calls to sign up or their TV and internet service. 73. John, W4AWM In a message dated 7/25/2016 7:47:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ranchorobbo at gmail.com writes: I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for U-verse go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their land line around here and regret it. And it is hard to get it back once you let it go. Give me the copper twisted pair. My WeCo model 302 in the shack works great. 73 Rob K5UJ On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:24 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w4awm at aol.com From k4kyv at charter.net Mon Jul 25 13:05:21 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:05:21 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201d1e696$bac6ab00$30540100$@charter.net> > I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for U-verse > go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their land > line around here and regret it > Rob > K5UJ Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and RF from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told them he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss it further. Don From k4kyv at charter.net Mon Jul 25 13:09:39 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:09:39 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 Message-ID: <000501d1e697$544da580$fce8f080$@charter.net> > I had family visiting over the weekend and we went for a drive out west of > my QTH yesterday afternoon. Off to the left of the road I saw > a 100 foot free standing tower with a wind propeller at the top. I > thought to myself, that guy is going to have to paint and lamp that thing, then > I remembered that in the congressional bill, there is an exclusion for towers > with windmill propellers over a certain length. > As if, that bigger propeller will magically prevent a plane from > flying into it. You can tell the fixes were in on that legislation. > > Rob > K5UJ And why would a crop duster or any other kind of low-flying aircraft ever be flying here? http://www.agaviation.org/files/policyinitiatives/Tower%20Public%20Outreach/ ad6.pdf From wa1qix at piesky.com Mon Jul 25 16:02:35 2016 From: wa1qix at piesky.com (Steve WA1QIX) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:02:35 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo. com> References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927@mx1.piesky.com> I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - converted a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - kept the same number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - better than the land line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) the audio is clean and the frequency response is quite reasonable. And it's significantly less expensive. Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have to keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your phones would die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it alive for some amount of time (don't know how long). At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: >My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the >cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless >phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which >are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to >find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a >landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my >landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional >part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put >quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve >things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality >phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > >Charlie, W4MEC in NC >______________________________________________________________ >Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >AMRadio mailing list >Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > > > >----- >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: 07/24/16 From steinerviolinist at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 15:03:15 2016 From: steinerviolinist at gmail.com (Oliver Steiner) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:03:15 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: <000201d1e696$bac6ab00$30540100$@charter.net> References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000201d1e696$bac6ab00$30540100$@charter.net> Message-ID: For what it's worth: I have U-verse Internet, Phone and Cable TV. Have never had a problem with my transmissions disturbing any of the three services, nor with the U-verse disturbing my radio reception. Ollie W2QXR On 7/25/16, Donald Chester wrote: >> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for > U-verse >> go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their >> land >> line around here and regret it >> Rob >> K5UJ > > Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and RF > from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. > > Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told them > he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss it > further. > > > Don > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to steinerviolinist at gmail.com > -- http://oliversteiner.com From bguyger at yahoo.com Mon Jul 25 16:06:42 2016 From: bguyger at yahoo.com (Bill Guyger) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:06:42 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927@mx1.piesky.com> References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927@mx1.piesky.com> Message-ID: <0BCC5139-830C-4292-98FC-E8567C010BC2@yahoo.com> FWIW I got rid of my POTS service and DSL several years ago because the lines in my part of Dallas are absolute crap. Every time it rained they got real noisy and after several attempts at finding clean pairs I just told AT&T to cram it. The people next door went thru hell with cable internet. They then tried Uverse and the technician screwed their house up so badly the wife wouldn't let the tech back thru the door even with his supervisor on site. So basically I'm wireless...... or witless or both. Bill AD5OL Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 25, 2016, at 3:02 PM, Steve WA1QIX wrote: > > I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > > Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > > However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - converted a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - kept the same number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - better than the land line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) the audio is clean and the frequency response is quite reasonable. And it's significantly less expensive. > > Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have to keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your phones would die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it alive for some amount of time (don't know how long). > > > At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: >> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. >> >> Charlie, W4MEC in NC >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >> AMRadio mailing list >> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >> the word unsubscribe in the message body. >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: 07/24/16 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com From jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 16:34:35 2016 From: jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com (Jay Walker) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:34:35 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I live out in the country and our options for anything but POTS phone service, Microwave point to point WISP internet and cellphone service is limited. There's no DSL/ASL or fiber so at best TELCO can offer limited ISDN. I keep the POTS for one reason. It's as bullet proof as any underground delivery service gets. Plus since the POTS is 'self-powered' long term electrical outages are not a problem. By long-term I mean weeks long events caused by ice storms.? A typical POTS exchange can run unattended on battery systems for a minimum of 72 hours. ? ?Since our WISP internet provider is VOIP capable a number of neighbors went with VOIP only. After severe storms they usually end up over here asking to use the phone since the I-Net and local cell tower is down for the count. But like a trusty Timex watch, the twisted pair keeps on working.? TCP/IP delivered services are cheap, but they are very prone to outages which is one reason I fear we have placed too much faith in controlling systems via the internet. As much as the IP's would like you to think of themselves as a 'Hard Service' recent events from Katrina to Sandy have proven that to be false... 73 de NS5F *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:06 PM, wrote: > Send AMRadio mailing list submissions to > amradio at mailman.qth.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > amradio-request at mailman.qth.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > amradio-owner at mailman.qth.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of AMRadio digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Landline vs cell (W4AWM at aol.com) > 2. Re: Landline vs cell (Donald Chester) > 3. Re: FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 (Donald Chester) > 4. Re: Landline vs cell (Steve WA1QIX) > 5. Re: Landline vs cell (Oliver Steiner) > 6. Re: Landline vs cell (Bill Guyger) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:34:53 -0400 > From: W4AWM at aol.com > To: ranchorobbo at gmail.com, mjcal77 at yahoo.com > Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: <4c7d08.74d8fc57.44c77d8d at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Ditto. Once FIOS gets your copper, you can EVER get it back and your > inbox and snail mailbox plus your phone get deluged with incessant calls > to sign > up or their TV and internet service. > > 73. > > John, W4AWM > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/25/2016 7:47:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > ranchorobbo at gmail.com writes: > > I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up > for U-verse go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who > dropped their land line around here and regret it. And it is hard to > get it back once you let it go. Give me the copper twisted pair. My > WeCo model 302 in the shack works great. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > > On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:24 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio > wrote: > > My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones > in > the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only ones > that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of any > type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary > phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps > and > burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. > While > they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might > improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a > quality > phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w4awm at aol.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:05:21 -0500 > From: "Donald Chester" > To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'CL in NC'" > > Cc: "'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service'" > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: <000201d1e696$bac6ab00$30540100$@charter.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for > U-verse > > go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their > land > > line around here and regret it > > Rob > > K5UJ > > Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and RF > from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. > > Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told them > he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss it > further. > > > Don > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:09:39 -0500 > From: "Donald Chester" > To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'Discussion of AM Radio > in the Amateur Service'" > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 > Message-ID: <000501d1e697$544da580$fce8f080$@charter.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > I had family visiting over the weekend and we went for a drive out west > of > > my QTH yesterday afternoon. Off to the left of the road I saw > > a 100 foot free standing tower with a wind propeller at the top. I > > thought to myself, that guy is going to have to paint and lamp that > thing, > then > > I remembered that in the congressional bill, there is an exclusion for > towers > > with windmill propellers over a certain length. > > As if, that bigger propeller will magically prevent a plane from > > flying into it. You can tell the fixes were in on that legislation. > > > > Rob > > K5UJ > > > And why would a crop duster or any other kind of low-flying aircraft ever > be flying here? > > > http://www.agaviation.org/files/policyinitiatives/Tower%20Public%20Outreach/ > ad6.pdf > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:02:35 -0500 > From: Steve WA1QIX > To: > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927 at mx1.piesky.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I > want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > > Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > > However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - > converted a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - > kept the same number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - > better than the land line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) > the audio is clean and the frequency response is quite > reasonable. And it's significantly less expensive. > > Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have > to keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your > phones would die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it > alive for some amount of time (don't know how long). > > > At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > >My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > >cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless > >phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which > >are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to > >find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a > >landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my > >landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional > >part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put > >quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve > >things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality > >phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > > > >Charlie, W4MEC in NC > >______________________________________________________________ > >Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >AMRadio mailing list > >Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > > > > > > > >----- > >No virus found in this message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: 07/24/16 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:03:15 -0400 > From: Oliver Steiner > To: Donald Chester > Cc: Rob Atkinson , CL in NC > , Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur > Service > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: > < > CAEnXyFAF-KFu+8V2Mg6GjUuzGr91iOJYrFVhS7zet1jSeKMMWQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > For what it's worth: > > I have U-verse Internet, Phone and Cable TV. Have never had a problem > with my transmissions disturbing any of the three services, nor with > the U-verse disturbing my radio reception. > > Ollie > W2QXR > > On 7/25/16, Donald Chester wrote: > >> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for > > U-verse > >> go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their > >> land > >> line around here and regret it > >> Rob > >> K5UJ > > > > Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and RF > > from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. > > > > Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told > them > > he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss it > > further. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > AMRadio mailing list > > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to steinerviolinist at gmail.com > > > > > -- > http://oliversteiner.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:06:42 -0500 > From: Bill Guyger > To: Steve WA1QIX > Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: <0BCC5139-830C-4292-98FC-E8567C010BC2 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > FWIW I got rid of my POTS service and DSL several years ago because the > lines in my part of Dallas are absolute crap. Every time it rained they got > real noisy and after several attempts at finding clean pairs I just told > AT&T to cram it. The people next door went thru hell with cable internet. > They then tried Uverse and the technician screwed their house up so badly > the wife wouldn't let the tech back thru the door even with his supervisor > on site. > > So basically I'm wireless...... or witless or both. > > Bill AD5OL > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jul 25, 2016, at 3:02 PM, Steve WA1QIX wrote: > > > > I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I > want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > > > > Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > > > > However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - converted > a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - kept the same > number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - better than the land > line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) the audio is clean and the > frequency response is quite reasonable. And it's significantly less > expensive. > > > > Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have to > keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your phones would > die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it alive for some amount > of time (don't know how long). > > > > > > At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > >> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones > in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only > ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of > any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary > phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps and > burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. > While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might > improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a > quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > >> > >> Charlie, W4MEC in NC > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >> AMRadio mailing list > >> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >> Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> No virus found in this message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: > 07/24/16 > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > AMRadio mailing list > > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > ______________________________________________________________ > AMRadio mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html > Post: mailto:AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > > ------------------------------ > > End of AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 > **************************************** > From k4kyv at charter.net Mon Jul 25 16:41:42 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:41:42 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636, short tower regulation Message-ID: <001801d1e6b4$f3e6b560$dbb42020$@charter.net> Looks like the broadcast rag RadioWorld finally addressed the issue of the tower regulation act. At least, once alerted, they didn't bury their heads in sand the way many hams have recently done, to say it's nothing to worry about because it would affect such a small percentage of antennas or towers. That's the same argument used by Johnny Johnston's Private Radio Bureau at the FCC, and other AM-haters, when Docket 20777 came out proposing to eliminate AM and later, the AM power issue, citing the small percentage of licensees who actively operated AM. One comment to the RW site that caught my attention was a concern that the FAA (or FCC) might require registration of all towers, accompanied by a big filing fee. http://www.radioworld.com/article/faa-to-require-marking-for-some-towers-200 -feet-or-less/279288 (remember to manually copy/paste the whole url into your browser to circumvent the disabling line break) Don k4kyv From w4okw at md.metrocast.net Mon Jul 25 18:02:05 2016 From: w4okw at md.metrocast.net (Tom) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:02:05 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65ac6d81-efd2-d7bd-4154-b571c4c5762c@md.metrocast.net> If you are flying that low and not on short final to a runway, you are doing something wrong or something is seriously wrong with your airplane and you are just along for the ride. Crop-dusters typically scout out their working area and are aware of the obstructions, or they wind up with short careers! The old saw about "fly low and slow" is a terrible idea. Tom/W4OKW 14,000+ flight hours and all landings and takeoffs are even! On 7/19/2016 1:39 PM, amradio-request at mailman.qth.net wrote: > Send AMRadio mailing list submissions to > amradio at mailman.qth.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > amradio-request at mailman.qth.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > amradio-owner at mailman.qth.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of AMRadio digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. FAA Extension, Safety and Security Act of 2016 (CL in NC) > 2. Re: FAA Extension, Safety and Security Act of 2016 (Rob Atkinson) > 3. Re: "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to > affect towers and masts over 50 feet in height. (Rob Atkinson) > 4. Re: "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to > affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. (w5jo at brightok.net) > 5. FW: "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to > affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. (Jack) > 6. Re: FW: "FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016" to > affect towers and masts over 50 feetin height. (Rob Atkinson) > > > ______________________________________________________________ > AMRadio mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html > Post: mailto:AMRadio at mailman.qth.net From frsahu0003 at embarqmail.com Mon Jul 25 18:04:24 2016 From: frsahu0003 at embarqmail.com (FRANK HUGHES hughes) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AMRadio] rural landline In-Reply-To: <1494097285.855167.1469484104886.JavaMail.root@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: <1571043395.857513.1469484264333.JavaMail.root@embarqmail.com> We have one POTS line. Good old Western Electric 500 and 2500 sets. There is no cable out here. Cell coverage in the house is intermittent. The only Internet available is DSL, 10mb tops. ADT fire and burglar alarms use the POTS line, as their cell option won't work here. I have been told there are 51,000 building permits open here in the far West end of the county, everything that was Orange groves for the last 100 years is now being paved with developments. So possibly a cable company will show up here someday. Or not. We have not had a TV in the house for 30 years now, no longer sure why we would want one. 73 Frank KJ4OLL From jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 18:23:17 2016 From: jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com (Jay Walker) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:23:17 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell Message-ID: I'll echo the comments on the lack of cellphone audio quality. Ever since cellphones changed from analog to data compressed digital voice the overall quality is very poor with too many digital artifacts. Thankfully after 30 years of carrying a business provided cell 24/7 365, now that I've retired I no longer have to deal with those devices. Back to the subject of copper twisted pair POTS, it's reliability is superior to most other personal communications devices as the service has had over 100 years to mature.. de NS5F *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* From bguyger at yahoo.com Mon Jul 25 18:41:20 2016 From: bguyger at yahoo.com (Bill Guyger) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:41:20 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interestingly enough, there are cell phone apps like Luci Live that gives almost studio audio when using an external mic. We use it sometimes for live interviews rather than sending a remote unit. Bill AD5OL Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 25, 2016, at 5:23 PM, Jay Walker wrote: > > I'll echo the comments on the lack of cellphone audio quality. Ever since > cellphones changed from analog to data compressed digital voice the overall > quality is very poor with too many digital artifacts. Thankfully after 30 > years of carrying a business provided cell 24/7 365, now that I've retired > I no longer have to deal with those devices. Back to the subject of copper > twisted pair POTS, it's reliability is superior to most other personal > communications devices as the service has had over 100 years to mature.. > de NS5F > > > > > *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com From rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 25 18:44:05 2016 From: rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com (C.L. Mitchell) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 22:44:05 +0000 Subject: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: People ask why I advise public safety [police, fire, EMS, EMS, etc] departments going to a local or state-wide 800 trunked system to keep their VHF or UHF licenses. Same logic as below. Simplex [or department-owned repeaters located at the dispatch point] obviously do not die when a computer malfunctions or intra-system links go out. The organization I retired from had people at the Katrina response and they told me that mostly-simplex VHF Hi-band systems still functioned, if nothing more than mobile-to-mobile. Trunked systems were mostly dead. ________________________________ From: AMRadio on behalf of Jay Walker Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 3:34 PM To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 I live out in the country and our options for anything but POTS phone service, Microwave point to point WISP internet and cellphone service is limited. There's no DSL/ASL or fiber so at best TELCO can offer limited ISDN. I keep the POTS for one reason. It's as bullet proof as any underground delivery service gets. Plus since the POTS is 'self-powered' long term electrical outages are not a problem. By long-term I mean weeks long events caused by ice storms. A typical POTS exchange can run unattended on battery systems for a minimum of 72 hours. Since our WISP internet provider is VOIP capable a number of neighbors went with VOIP only. After severe storms they usually end up over here asking to use the phone since the I-Net and local cell tower is down for the count. But like a trusty Timex watch, the twisted pair keeps on working. TCP/IP delivered services are cheap, but they are very prone to outages which is one reason I fear we have placed too much faith in controlling systems via the internet. As much as the IP's would like you to think of themselves as a 'Hard Service' recent events from Katrina to Sandy have proven that to be false... 73 de NS5F *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:06 PM, wrote: > Send AMRadio mailing list submissions to > amradio at mailman.qth.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > amradio-request at mailman.qth.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > amradio-owner at mailman.qth.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of AMRadio digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Landline vs cell (W4AWM at aol.com) > 2. Re: Landline vs cell (Donald Chester) > 3. Re: FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 (Donald Chester) > 4. Re: Landline vs cell (Steve WA1QIX) > 5. Re: Landline vs cell (Oliver Steiner) > 6. Re: Landline vs cell (Bill Guyger) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:34:53 -0400 > From: W4AWM at aol.com > To: ranchorobbo at gmail.com, mjcal77 at yahoo.com > Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: <4c7d08.74d8fc57.44c77d8d at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Ditto. Once FIOS gets your copper, you can EVER get it back and your > inbox and snail mailbox plus your phone get deluged with incessant calls > to sign > up or their TV and internet service. > > 73. > > John, W4AWM > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/25/2016 7:47:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > ranchorobbo at gmail.com writes: > > I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up > for U-verse go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who > dropped their land line around here and regret it. And it is hard to > get it back once you let it go. Give me the copper twisted pair. My > WeCo model 302 in the shack works great. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > > On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:24 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio > wrote: > > My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones > in > the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only ones > that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of any > type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary > phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps > and > burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. > While > they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might > improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a > quality > phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w4awm at aol.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:05:21 -0500 > From: "Donald Chester" > To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'CL in NC'" > > Cc: "'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service'" > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: <000201d1e696$bac6ab00$30540100$@charter.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for > U-verse > > go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their > land > > line around here and regret it > > Rob > > K5UJ > > Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and RF > from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. > > Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told them > he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss it > further. > > > Don > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:09:39 -0500 > From: "Donald Chester" > To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'Discussion of AM Radio > in the Amateur Service'" > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 > Message-ID: <000501d1e697$544da580$fce8f080$@charter.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > I had family visiting over the weekend and we went for a drive out west > of > > my QTH yesterday afternoon. Off to the left of the road I saw > > a 100 foot free standing tower with a wind propeller at the top. I > > thought to myself, that guy is going to have to paint and lamp that > thing, > then > > I remembered that in the congressional bill, there is an exclusion for > towers > > with windmill propellers over a certain length. > > As if, that bigger propeller will magically prevent a plane from > > flying into it. You can tell the fixes were in on that legislation. > > > > Rob > > K5UJ > > > And why would a crop duster or any other kind of low-flying aircraft ever > be flying here? > > > http://www.agaviation.org/files/policyinitiatives/Tower%20Public%20Outreach/ > ad6.pdf > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:02:35 -0500 > From: Steve WA1QIX > To: > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927 at mx1.piesky.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I > want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > > Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > > However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - > converted a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - > kept the same number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - > better than the land line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) > the audio is clean and the frequency response is quite > reasonable. And it's significantly less expensive. > > Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have > to keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your > phones would die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it > alive for some amount of time (don't know how long). > > > At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > >My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > >cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless > >phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which > >are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to > >find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a > >landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my > >landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional > >part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put > >quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve > >things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality > >phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > > > >Charlie, W4MEC in NC > >______________________________________________________________ > >Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >AMRadio mailing list > >Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > > > > > > > >----- > >No virus found in this message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: 07/24/16 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:03:15 -0400 > From: Oliver Steiner > To: Donald Chester > Cc: Rob Atkinson , CL in NC > , Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur > Service > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: > < > CAEnXyFAF-KFu+8V2Mg6GjUuzGr91iOJYrFVhS7zet1jSeKMMWQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > For what it's worth: > > I have U-verse Internet, Phone and Cable TV. Have never had a problem > with my transmissions disturbing any of the three services, nor with > the U-verse disturbing my radio reception. > > Ollie > W2QXR > > On 7/25/16, Donald Chester wrote: > >> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for > > U-verse > >> go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their > >> land > >> line around here and regret it > >> Rob > >> K5UJ > > > > Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and RF > > from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. > > > > Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told > them > > he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss it > > further. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > AMRadio mailing list > > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to steinerviolinist at gmail.com > > > > > -- > http://oliversteiner.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:06:42 -0500 > From: Bill Guyger > To: Steve WA1QIX > Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: <0BCC5139-830C-4292-98FC-E8567C010BC2 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > FWIW I got rid of my POTS service and DSL several years ago because the > lines in my part of Dallas are absolute crap. Every time it rained they got > real noisy and after several attempts at finding clean pairs I just told > AT&T to cram it. The people next door went thru hell with cable internet. > They then tried Uverse and the technician screwed their house up so badly > the wife wouldn't let the tech back thru the door even with his supervisor > on site. > > So basically I'm wireless...... or witless or both. > > Bill AD5OL > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jul 25, 2016, at 3:02 PM, Steve WA1QIX wrote: > > > > I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I > want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > > > > Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > > > > However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - converted > a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - kept the same > number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - better than the land > line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) the audio is clean and the > frequency response is quite reasonable. And it's significantly less > expensive. > > > > Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have to > keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your phones would > die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it alive for some amount > of time (don't know how long). > > > > > > At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > >> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones > in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only > ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of > any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary > phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps and > burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. > While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might > improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a > quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > >> > >> Charlie, W4MEC in NC > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >> AMRadio mailing list > >> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >> Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> No virus found in this message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: > 07/24/16 > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > AMRadio mailing list > > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > ______________________________________________________________ > AMRadio mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html > Post: mailto:AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > > ------------------------------ > > End of AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 > **************************************** > ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 19:26:37 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:26:37 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] rural landline In-Reply-To: <1571043395.857513.1469484264333.JavaMail.root@embarqmail.com> References: <1494097285.855167.1469484104886.JavaMail.root@embarqmail.com> <1571043395.857513.1469484264333.JavaMail.root@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: Development is bad news. I hope it stays away from you. I have a TV and an antenna. I turn it on maybe 4 times a year and check my CRT and converter box. I have DSL and a 10 dollar cell phone for hamfests and POTS for every day phone calls. I get by FB. 73 Rob K5UJ On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 5:04 PM, FRANK HUGHES hughes wrote: > We have one POTS line. > Good old Western Electric 500 and 2500 sets. > There is no cable out here. Cell coverage in the house is intermittent. > The only Internet available is DSL, 10mb tops. > ADT fire and burglar alarms use the POTS line, as their cell option won't work here. > > > I have been told there are 51,000 building permits open here in the far West end of the county, everything that was Orange groves for > the last 100 years is now being paved with developments. > > > So possibly a cable company will show up here someday. Or not. > We have not had a TV in the house for 30 years now, no longer sure why we would want one. > From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 19:32:55 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:32:55 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927@mx1.piesky.com> References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927@mx1.piesky.com> Message-ID: I refuse to have a cell phone conversation that lasts longer than a minute or two. To me it is a tool to transmit information like "I'll meet you at two at the supermarket." not much more than that. Any real phone call for me has to be on a land line. Steve, I've heard those cable telephones with the battery backups didn't make it long during the Sandy power outage. Folks who still had POTS were the only ones with phone service. 73 Rob K5UJ On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Steve WA1QIX wrote: > I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I want > call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > > Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > > However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - converted a > 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - kept the same > number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - better than the land > line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) the audio is clean and the > frequency response is quite reasonable. And it's significantly less > expensive. > > Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have to > keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your phones would > die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it alive for some amount > of time (don't know how long). > From jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 19:56:48 2016 From: jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com (Jay Walker) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:56:48 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Comparing external codecs to regular cell audio is not really valid since broadcast encoders are basically a voice modem with a completely different algorithm. But even external codecs have problems. In order for external encoders to sound good they need to have a high data rate connection. From experience using various codecs for Super Bowl broadcasts I've helped engineer, I can tell you that cell overloading is a major problem. What worked great during checkout the day before the game usually leaves you hanging on game day. Same with remote broadcasts that have a large attendance. when 50,000 or more people gather in the stands and light up cellphones there's always a problem. de NS5F *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 5:44 PM, wrote: > Send AMRadio mailing list submissions to > amradio at mailman.qth.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > amradio-request at mailman.qth.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > amradio-owner at mailman.qth.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of AMRadio digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. rural landline (FRANK HUGHES hughes) > 2. Re: Landline vs cell (Jay Walker) > 3. Re: Landline vs cell (Bill Guyger) > 4. Re: AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 (C.L. Mitchell) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:04:24 -0400 (EDT) > From: "FRANK HUGHES hughes" > > To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: [AMRadio] rural landline > Message-ID: > <1571043395.857513.1469484264333.JavaMail.root at embarqmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > We have one POTS line. > Good old Western Electric 500 and 2500 sets. > There is no cable out here. Cell coverage in the house is intermittent. > The only Internet available is DSL, 10mb tops. > ADT fire and burglar alarms use the POTS line, as their cell option won't > work here. > > > I have been told there are 51,000 building permits open here in the far > West end of the county, everything that was Orange groves for > the last 100 years is now being paved with developments. > > > So possibly a cable company will show up here someday. Or not. > We have not had a TV in the house for 30 years now, no longer sure why we > would want one. > 73 > Frank > KJ4OLL > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:23:17 -0500 > From: Jay Walker > To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: > < > CAHJfY-yvD5-GAqtGWazynwrKLG3eHW64Uq3+NYJ7xiPF52o+Gg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I'll echo the comments on the lack of cellphone audio quality. Ever since > cellphones changed from analog to data compressed digital voice the overall > quality is very poor with too many digital artifacts. Thankfully after 30 > years of carrying a business provided cell 24/7 365, now that I've retired > I no longer have to deal with those devices. Back to the subject of copper > twisted pair POTS, it's reliability is superior to most other personal > communications devices as the service has had over 100 years to mature.. > de NS5F > > > > > *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:41:20 -0500 > From: Bill Guyger > To: Jay Walker > Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Interestingly enough, there are cell phone apps like Luci Live that gives > almost studio audio when using an external mic. We use it sometimes for > live interviews rather than sending a remote unit. > > Bill AD5OL > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jul 25, 2016, at 5:23 PM, Jay Walker > wrote: > > > > I'll echo the comments on the lack of cellphone audio quality. Ever since > > cellphones changed from analog to data compressed digital voice the > overall > > quality is very poor with too many digital artifacts. Thankfully after 30 > > years of carrying a business provided cell 24/7 365, now that I've > retired > > I no longer have to deal with those devices. Back to the subject of > copper > > twisted pair POTS, it's reliability is superior to most other personal > > communications devices as the service has had over 100 years to mature.. > > de NS5F > > > > > > > > > > *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > AMRadio mailing list > > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 22:44:05 +0000 > From: "C.L. Mitchell" > To: Jay Walker , > "amradio at mailman.qth.net" > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 > Message-ID: > < > CY1PR20MB0348B04770CAA76F295C9440820D0 at CY1PR20MB0348.namprd20.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > People ask why I advise public safety [police, fire, EMS, EMS, etc] > departments going to a local or state-wide 800 trunked system to keep their > VHF or UHF licenses. Same logic as below. Simplex [or department-owned > repeaters located at the dispatch point] obviously do not die when a > computer malfunctions or intra-system links go out. The organization I > retired from had people at the Katrina response and they told me that > mostly-simplex VHF Hi-band systems still functioned, if nothing more than > mobile-to-mobile. Trunked systems were mostly dead. > > > ________________________________ > From: AMRadio on behalf of Jay Walker < > jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 3:34 PM > To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 > > I live out in the country and our options for anything but POTS phone > service, Microwave point to point WISP internet and cellphone service is > limited. There's no DSL/ASL or fiber so at best TELCO can offer limited > ISDN. I keep the POTS for one reason. It's as bullet proof as any > underground delivery service gets. Plus since the POTS is 'self-powered' > long term electrical outages are not a problem. By long-term I mean weeks > long events caused by ice storms. A typical POTS exchange can run > unattended on battery systems for a minimum of 72 hours. > > Since our WISP internet provider is VOIP capable a number of neighbors > went with VOIP only. After severe storms they usually end up over here > asking to use the phone since the I-Net and local cell tower is down for > the count. But like a trusty Timex watch, the twisted pair keeps on > working. TCP/IP delivered services are cheap, but they are very prone to > outages which is one reason I fear we have placed too much faith in > controlling systems via the internet. As much as the IP's would like you to > think of themselves as a 'Hard Service' recent events from Katrina to Sandy > have proven that to be false... > 73 de NS5F > > > > *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:06 PM, wrote: > > > Send AMRadio mailing list submissions to > > amradio at mailman.qth.net > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > amradio-request at mailman.qth.net > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > amradio-owner at mailman.qth.net > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of AMRadio digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Landline vs cell (W4AWM at aol.com) > > 2. Re: Landline vs cell (Donald Chester) > > 3. Re: FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 (Donald Chester) > > 4. Re: Landline vs cell (Steve WA1QIX) > > 5. Re: Landline vs cell (Oliver Steiner) > > 6. Re: Landline vs cell (Bill Guyger) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:34:53 -0400 > > From: W4AWM at aol.com > > To: ranchorobbo at gmail.com, mjcal77 at yahoo.com > > Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > > Message-ID: <4c7d08.74d8fc57.44c77d8d at aol.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Ditto. Once FIOS gets your copper, you can EVER get it back and your > > inbox and snail mailbox plus your phone get deluged with incessant calls > > to sign > > up or their TV and internet service. > > > > 73. > > > > John, W4AWM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/25/2016 7:47:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > ranchorobbo at gmail.com writes: > > > > I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up > > for U-verse go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who > > dropped their land line around here and regret it. And it is hard to > > get it back once you let it go. Give me the copper twisted pair. My > > WeCo model 302 in the shack works great. > > > > 73 > > > > Rob > > K5UJ > > > > On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:24 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio > > wrote: > > > My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > > cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless > phones > > in > > the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only > ones > > that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of > any > > type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary > > phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps > > and > > burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. > > While > > they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might > > improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a > > quality > > phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > AMRadio mailing list > > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to w4awm at aol.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:05:21 -0500 > > From: "Donald Chester" > > To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'CL in NC'" > > > > Cc: "'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service'" > > > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > > Message-ID: <000201d1e696$bac6ab00$30540100$@charter.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for > > U-verse > > > go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their > > land > > > line around here and regret it > > > Rob > > > K5UJ > > > > Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and RF > > from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. > > > > Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told > them > > he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss it > > further. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:09:39 -0500 > > From: "Donald Chester" > > To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'Discussion of AM Radio > > in the Amateur Service'" > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 > > Message-ID: <000501d1e697$544da580$fce8f080$@charter.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > I had family visiting over the weekend and we went for a drive out west > > of > > > my QTH yesterday afternoon. Off to the left of the road I saw > > > a 100 foot free standing tower with a wind propeller at the top. I > > > thought to myself, that guy is going to have to paint and lamp that > > thing, > > then > > > I remembered that in the congressional bill, there is an exclusion for > > towers > > > with windmill propellers over a certain length. > > > As if, that bigger propeller will magically prevent a plane from > > > flying into it. You can tell the fixes were in on that legislation. > > > > > > Rob > > > K5UJ > > > > > > And why would a crop duster or any other kind of low-flying aircraft > ever > > be flying here? > > > > > > > http://www.agaviation.org/files/policyinitiatives/Tower%20Public%20Outreach/ > > ad6.pdf > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:02:35 -0500 > > From: Steve WA1QIX > > To: > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > > Message-ID: <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927 at mx1.piesky.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > > I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I > > want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > > > > Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > > > > However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - > > converted a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - > > kept the same number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - > > better than the land line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) > > the audio is clean and the frequency response is quite > > reasonable. And it's significantly less expensive. > > > > Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have > > to keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your > > phones would die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it > > alive for some amount of time (don't know how long). > > > > > > At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > > >My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > > >cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless > > >phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which > > >are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to > > >find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a > > >landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my > > >landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional > > >part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put > > >quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve > > >things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality > > >phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > > > > > >Charlie, W4MEC in NC > > >______________________________________________________________ > > >Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > >AMRadio mailing list > > >Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > >List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > >List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > >Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > >To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > >the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > >Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > > > > > > > > > > > >----- > > >No virus found in this message. > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > >Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: > 07/24/16 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:03:15 -0400 > > From: Oliver Steiner > > To: Donald Chester > > Cc: Rob Atkinson , CL in NC > > , Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur > > Service > > > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > > Message-ID: > > < > > CAEnXyFAF-KFu+8V2Mg6GjUuzGr91iOJYrFVhS7zet1jSeKMMWQ at mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > For what it's worth: > > > > I have U-verse Internet, Phone and Cable TV. Have never had a problem > > with my transmissions disturbing any of the three services, nor with > > the U-verse disturbing my radio reception. > > > > Ollie > > W2QXR > > > > On 7/25/16, Donald Chester wrote: > > >> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up > for > > > U-verse > > >> go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their > > >> land > > >> line around here and regret it > > >> Rob > > >> K5UJ > > > > > > Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and > RF > > > from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. > > > > > > Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told > > them > > > he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss > it > > > further. > > > > > > > > > Don > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > > AMRadio mailing list > > > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > Message delivered to steinerviolinist at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://oliversteiner.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:06:42 -0500 > > From: Bill Guyger > > To: Steve WA1QIX > > Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > > Message-ID: <0BCC5139-830C-4292-98FC-E8567C010BC2 at yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > FWIW I got rid of my POTS service and DSL several years ago because the > > lines in my part of Dallas are absolute crap. Every time it rained they > got > > real noisy and after several attempts at finding clean pairs I just told > > AT&T to cram it. The people next door went thru hell with cable internet. > > They then tried Uverse and the technician screwed their house up so badly > > the wife wouldn't let the tech back thru the door even with his > supervisor > > on site. > > > > So basically I'm wireless...... or witless or both. > > > > Bill AD5OL > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Jul 25, 2016, at 3:02 PM, Steve WA1QIX wrote: > > > > > > I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I > > want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > > > > > > Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > > > > > > However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - converted > > a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - kept the same > > number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - better than the land > > line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) the audio is clean and the > > frequency response is quite reasonable. And it's significantly less > > expensive. > > > > > > Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have > to > > keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your phones > would > > die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it alive for some > amount > > of time (don't know how long). > > > > > > > > > At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > > >> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > > cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones > > in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only > > ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone > of > > any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or > rotary > > phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps > and > > burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. > > While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic > might > > improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a > > quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > > >> > > >> Charlie, W4MEC in NC > > >> ______________________________________________________________ > > >> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > >> AMRadio mailing list > > >> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > >> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > >> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > >> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > >> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > >> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > >> > > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > >> Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ----- > > >> No virus found in this message. > > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > >> Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: > > 07/24/16 > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > > AMRadio mailing list > > > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > AMRadio mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html > > Post: mailto:AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 > > **************************************** > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > ______________________________________________________________ > AMRadio mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html > Post: mailto:AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > > ------------------------------ > > End of AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 12 > **************************************** > From bguyger at yahoo.com Mon Jul 25 21:26:01 2016 From: bguyger at yahoo.com (Bill Guyger) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 20:26:01 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56847B07-BAAC-46C3-A479-E5A156071302@yahoo.com> Jay If this is directed at my comment, I was referring to an app that runs on iPhones not an external codec. When we do use Luci Live it's only for local "events" like store openings or a hurriedly called news conference. At large events you are totally right. As a matter of fact when WWE was at AT&T Stadium the entire IT infrastructure crashed because of all the phones and tablets people brought in. The ticket scanners, POS terminals, computers in the press box, etc. everything crashed. I just finished rebuilding the Dallas Cowboy Spanish Radio system. The Spanish PXP guy was pushing to convert to IP Codec because when he does Maverick Spanish PXP he's on one (of 3) that the NBA has installed in all their arenas. Trouble is NBA has installed their own network of T1's connecting each arena to Level 3's hub wherever it is so it's a stable connection. The team flagship station then connects to the hub via their own ISP which is generally better than an overload connection via in arena networks. The NFL and NHL haven't followed suit so the Spanish broadcast would be at the mercy of the in house networks in the various stadiums. I strongly opposed the IP move until the NFL does what the NBA did. Until then they are going to stay on ISDN or 2020 whichever comes first (unless the phone companies back off on their ISDN drop dead date again). As an aside, I'm the Mavericks radio broadcast engineer. We had to install a wired Internet connection for the visiting radio broadcasters to use because the AT&T wireless inside American Airliner Center goes to hell once the crowd starts arriving. I also do all the visiting NHL radio broadcasts (except for 2 teams) same story there and the arena IT guys installed a AP right outside the radio booth...... Bill AD5OL Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 25, 2016, at 6:56 PM, Jay Walker wrote: > > Comparing external codecs to regular cell audio is not really valid since > broadcast encoders are basically a voice modem with a completely different > algorithm. But even external codecs have problems. In order for external > encoders to sound good they need to have a high data rate connection. From > experience using various codecs for Super Bowl broadcasts I've helped > engineer, I can tell you that cell overloading is a major problem. What > worked great during checkout the day before the game usually leaves you > hanging on game day. Same with remote broadcasts that have a large > attendance. when 50,000 or more people gather in the stands and light up > cellphones there's always a problem. > de NS5F > > > > *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* > > >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 5:44 PM, wrote: >> >> Send AMRadio mailing list submissions to >> amradio at mailman.qth.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> amradio-request at mailman.qth.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> amradio-owner at mailman.qth.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of AMRadio digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. rural landline (FRANK HUGHES hughes) >> 2. Re: Landline vs cell (Jay Walker) >> 3. Re: Landline vs cell (Bill Guyger) >> 4. Re: AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 (C.L. Mitchell) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:04:24 -0400 (EDT) >> From: "FRANK HUGHES hughes" >> >> To: amradio at mailman.qth.net >> Subject: [AMRadio] rural landline >> Message-ID: >> <1571043395.857513.1469484264333.JavaMail.root at embarqmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> We have one POTS line. >> Good old Western Electric 500 and 2500 sets. >> There is no cable out here. Cell coverage in the house is intermittent. >> The only Internet available is DSL, 10mb tops. >> ADT fire and burglar alarms use the POTS line, as their cell option won't >> work here. >> >> >> I have been told there are 51,000 building permits open here in the far >> West end of the county, everything that was Orange groves for >> the last 100 years is now being paved with developments. >> >> >> So possibly a cable company will show up here someday. Or not. >> We have not had a TV in the house for 30 years now, no longer sure why we >> would want one. >> 73 >> Frank >> KJ4OLL >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:23:17 -0500 >> From: Jay Walker >> To: amradio at mailman.qth.net >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell >> Message-ID: >> < >> CAHJfY-yvD5-GAqtGWazynwrKLG3eHW64Uq3+NYJ7xiPF52o+Gg at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> I'll echo the comments on the lack of cellphone audio quality. Ever since >> cellphones changed from analog to data compressed digital voice the overall >> quality is very poor with too many digital artifacts. Thankfully after 30 >> years of carrying a business provided cell 24/7 365, now that I've retired >> I no longer have to deal with those devices. Back to the subject of copper >> twisted pair POTS, it's reliability is superior to most other personal >> communications devices as the service has had over 100 years to mature.. >> de NS5F >> >> >> >> >> *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:41:20 -0500 >> From: Bill Guyger >> To: Jay Walker >> Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Interestingly enough, there are cell phone apps like Luci Live that gives >> almost studio audio when using an external mic. We use it sometimes for >> live interviews rather than sending a remote unit. >> >> Bill AD5OL >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Jul 25, 2016, at 5:23 PM, Jay Walker >>> wrote: >>> >>> I'll echo the comments on the lack of cellphone audio quality. Ever since >>> cellphones changed from analog to data compressed digital voice the >> overall >>> quality is very poor with too many digital artifacts. Thankfully after 30 >>> years of carrying a business provided cell 24/7 365, now that I've >> retired >>> I no longer have to deal with those devices. Back to the subject of >> copper >>> twisted pair POTS, it's reliability is superior to most other personal >>> communications devices as the service has had over 100 years to mature.. >>> de NS5F >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >>> AMRadio mailing list >>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 22:44:05 +0000 >> From: "C.L. Mitchell" >> To: Jay Walker , >> "amradio at mailman.qth.net" >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 >> Message-ID: >> < >> CY1PR20MB0348B04770CAA76F295C9440820D0 at CY1PR20MB0348.namprd20.prod.outlook.com >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> People ask why I advise public safety [police, fire, EMS, EMS, etc] >> departments going to a local or state-wide 800 trunked system to keep their >> VHF or UHF licenses. Same logic as below. Simplex [or department-owned >> repeaters located at the dispatch point] obviously do not die when a >> computer malfunctions or intra-system links go out. The organization I >> retired from had people at the Katrina response and they told me that >> mostly-simplex VHF Hi-band systems still functioned, if nothing more than >> mobile-to-mobile. Trunked systems were mostly dead. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: AMRadio on behalf of Jay Walker < >> jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com> >> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 3:34 PM >> To: amradio at mailman.qth.net >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 >> >> I live out in the country and our options for anything but POTS phone >> service, Microwave point to point WISP internet and cellphone service is >> limited. There's no DSL/ASL or fiber so at best TELCO can offer limited >> ISDN. I keep the POTS for one reason. It's as bullet proof as any >> underground delivery service gets. Plus since the POTS is 'self-powered' >> long term electrical outages are not a problem. By long-term I mean weeks >> long events caused by ice storms. A typical POTS exchange can run >> unattended on battery systems for a minimum of 72 hours. >> >> Since our WISP internet provider is VOIP capable a number of neighbors >> went with VOIP only. After severe storms they usually end up over here >> asking to use the phone since the I-Net and local cell tower is down for >> the count. But like a trusty Timex watch, the twisted pair keeps on >> working. TCP/IP delivered services are cheap, but they are very prone to >> outages which is one reason I fear we have placed too much faith in >> controlling systems via the internet. As much as the IP's would like you to >> think of themselves as a 'Hard Service' recent events from Katrina to Sandy >> have proven that to be false... >> 73 de NS5F >> >> >> >> *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* >> >> >>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:06 PM, wrote: >>> >>> Send AMRadio mailing list submissions to >>> amradio at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> amradio-request at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> amradio-owner at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of AMRadio digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Landline vs cell (W4AWM at aol.com) >>> 2. Re: Landline vs cell (Donald Chester) >>> 3. Re: FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 (Donald Chester) >>> 4. Re: Landline vs cell (Steve WA1QIX) >>> 5. Re: Landline vs cell (Oliver Steiner) >>> 6. Re: Landline vs cell (Bill Guyger) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:34:53 -0400 >>> From: W4AWM at aol.com >>> To: ranchorobbo at gmail.com, mjcal77 at yahoo.com >>> Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell >>> Message-ID: <4c7d08.74d8fc57.44c77d8d at aol.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> >>> Ditto. Once FIOS gets your copper, you can EVER get it back and your >>> inbox and snail mailbox plus your phone get deluged with incessant calls >>> to sign >>> up or their TV and internet service. >>> >>> 73. >>> >>> John, W4AWM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 7/25/2016 7:47:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> ranchorobbo at gmail.com writes: >>> >>> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up >>> for U-verse go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who >>> dropped their land line around here and regret it. And it is hard to >>> get it back once you let it go. Give me the copper twisted pair. My >>> WeCo model 302 in the shack works great. >>> >>> 73 >>> >>> Rob >>> K5UJ >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:24 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio >>> wrote: >>>> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the >>> cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless >> phones >>> in >>> the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only >> ones >>> that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of >> any >>> type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or rotary >>> phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps >>> and >>> burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. >>> While >>> they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might >>> improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a >>> quality >>> phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >>> AMRadio mailing list >>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to w4awm at aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:05:21 -0500 >>> From: "Donald Chester" >>> To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'CL in NC'" >>> >>> Cc: "'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell >>> Message-ID: <000201d1e696$bac6ab00$30540100$@charter.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>>> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up for >>> U-verse >>>> go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their >>> land >>>> line around here and regret it >>>> Rob >>>> K5UJ >>> >>> Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and RF >>> from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. >>> >>> Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told >> them >>> he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss it >>> further. >>> >>> >>> Don >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:09:39 -0500 >>> From: "Donald Chester" >>> To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'Discussion of AM Radio >>> in the Amateur Service'" >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 >>> Message-ID: <000501d1e697$544da580$fce8f080$@charter.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>>> I had family visiting over the weekend and we went for a drive out west >>> of >>>> my QTH yesterday afternoon. Off to the left of the road I saw >>>> a 100 foot free standing tower with a wind propeller at the top. I >>>> thought to myself, that guy is going to have to paint and lamp that >>> thing, >>> then >>>> I remembered that in the congressional bill, there is an exclusion for >>> towers >>>> with windmill propellers over a certain length. >>>> As if, that bigger propeller will magically prevent a plane from >>>> flying into it. You can tell the fixes were in on that legislation. >>>> >>>> Rob >>>> K5UJ >>> >>> >>> And why would a crop duster or any other kind of low-flying aircraft >> ever >>> be flying here? >> http://www.agaviation.org/files/policyinitiatives/Tower%20Public%20Outreach/ >>> ad6.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:02:35 -0500 >>> From: Steve WA1QIX >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell >>> Message-ID: <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927 at mx1.piesky.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >>> >>> I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I >>> want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). >>> >>> Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. >>> >>> However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - >>> converted a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - >>> kept the same number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - >>> better than the land line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) >>> the audio is clean and the frequency response is quite >>> reasonable. And it's significantly less expensive. >>> >>> Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have >>> to keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your >>> phones would die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it >>> alive for some amount of time (don't know how long). >>> >>> >>> At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: >>>> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the >>>> cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless >>>> phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which >>>> are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to >>>> find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a >>>> landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my >>>> landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional >>>> part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put >>>> quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve >>>> things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality >>>> phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. >>>> >>>> Charlie, W4MEC in NC >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >>>> AMRadio mailing list >>>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >>>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >>>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >>>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >>>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> No virus found in this message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: >> 07/24/16 >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 5 >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:03:15 -0400 >>> From: Oliver Steiner >>> To: Donald Chester >>> Cc: Rob Atkinson , CL in NC >>> , Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur >>> Service >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell >>> Message-ID: >>> < >>> CAEnXyFAF-KFu+8V2Mg6GjUuzGr91iOJYrFVhS7zet1jSeKMMWQ at mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >>> >>> For what it's worth: >>> >>> I have U-verse Internet, Phone and Cable TV. Have never had a problem >>> with my transmissions disturbing any of the three services, nor with >>> the U-verse disturbing my radio reception. >>> >>> Ollie >>> W2QXR >>> >>> On 7/25/16, Donald Chester wrote: >>>>> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up >> for >>>> U-verse >>>>> go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their >>>>> land >>>>> line around here and regret it >>>>> Rob >>>>> K5UJ >>>> >>>> Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and >> RF >>>> from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. >>>> >>>> Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told >>> them >>>> he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss >> it >>>> further. >>>> >>>> >>>> Don >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >>>> AMRadio mailing list >>>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >>>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >>>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >>>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >>>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> Message delivered to steinerviolinist at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://oliversteiner.com >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 6 >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:06:42 -0500 >>> From: Bill Guyger >>> To: Steve WA1QIX >>> Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell >>> Message-ID: <0BCC5139-830C-4292-98FC-E8567C010BC2 at yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> FWIW I got rid of my POTS service and DSL several years ago because the >>> lines in my part of Dallas are absolute crap. Every time it rained they >> got >>> real noisy and after several attempts at finding clean pairs I just told >>> AT&T to cram it. The people next door went thru hell with cable internet. >>> They then tried Uverse and the technician screwed their house up so badly >>> the wife wouldn't let the tech back thru the door even with his >> supervisor >>> on site. >>> >>> So basically I'm wireless...... or witless or both. >>> >>> Bill AD5OL >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 25, 2016, at 3:02 PM, Steve WA1QIX wrote: >>>> >>>> I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I >>> want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). >>>> >>>> Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. >>>> >>>> However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - converted >>> a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - kept the same >>> number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - better than the land >>> line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) the audio is clean and the >>> frequency response is quite reasonable. And it's significantly less >>> expensive. >>>> >>>> Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have >> to >>> keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your phones >> would >>> die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it alive for some >> amount >>> of time (don't know how long). >>>> >>>> >>>> At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: >>>>> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the >>> cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless phones >>> in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only >>> ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone >> of >>> any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or >> rotary >>> phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps >> and >>> burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. >>> While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic >> might >>> improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a >>> quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. >>>>> >>>>> Charlie, W4MEC in NC >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >>>>> AMRadio mailing list >>>>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >>>>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >>>>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >>>>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >>>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >>>>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>> Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: >>> 07/24/16 >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >>>> AMRadio mailing list >>>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >>>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >>>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >>>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >>>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> AMRadio mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html >>> Post: mailto:AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 >>> **************************************** >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >> AMRadio mailing list >> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >> the word unsubscribe in the message body. >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> AMRadio mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html >> Post: mailto:AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 12 >> **************************************** > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com From jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 22:02:48 2016 From: jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com (Jay Walker) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 21:02:48 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: <56847B07-BAAC-46C3-A479-E5A156071302@yahoo.com> References: <56847B07-BAAC-46C3-A479-E5A156071302@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Bill, It's a small world as you'll see in the PM I sent you. You are absolutely correct on avoiding IP at all cost unless it's a dedicated network. ? On the iPhone App I was under the impression most did their own digitizing of the audio and simply utilized the data stream rather than using the voice algorithm. If that's not the case then I've learned something new and I'm always ready for that.? I retired from broadcasting back in 2012 so anything could have changed in 4 years HIHI. 73 Jay NS5F ? ? *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Bill Guyger wrote: > Jay > > If this is directed at my comment, I was referring to an app that runs on > iPhones not an external codec. > > When we do use Luci Live it's only for local "events" like store openings > or a hurriedly called news conference. > > At large events you are totally right. As a matter of fact when WWE was at > AT&T Stadium the entire IT infrastructure crashed because of all the phones > and tablets people brought in. The ticket scanners, POS terminals, > computers in the press box, etc. everything crashed. > > I just finished rebuilding the Dallas Cowboy Spanish Radio system. The > Spanish PXP guy was pushing to convert to IP Codec because when he does > Maverick Spanish PXP he's on one (of 3) that the NBA has installed in all > their arenas. Trouble is NBA has installed their own network of T1's > connecting each arena to Level 3's hub wherever it is so it's a stable > connection. The team flagship station then connects to the hub via their > own ISP which is generally better than an overload connection via in arena > networks. > > The NFL and NHL haven't followed suit so the Spanish broadcast would be at > the mercy of the in house networks in the various stadiums. > > I strongly opposed the IP move until the NFL does what the NBA did. Until > then they are going to stay on ISDN or 2020 whichever comes first (unless > the phone companies back off on their ISDN drop dead date again). > > As an aside, I'm the Mavericks radio broadcast engineer. We had to install > a wired Internet connection for the visiting radio broadcasters to use > because the AT&T wireless inside American Airliner Center goes to hell once > the crowd starts arriving. I also do all the visiting NHL radio broadcasts > (except for 2 teams) same story there and the arena IT guys installed a AP > right outside the radio booth...... > > Bill AD5OL > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jul 25, 2016, at 6:56 PM, Jay Walker > wrote: > > > > Comparing external codecs to regular cell audio is not really valid since > > broadcast encoders are basically a voice modem with a completely > different > > algorithm. But even external codecs have problems. In order for external > > encoders to sound good they need to have a high data rate connection. > From > > experience using various codecs for Super Bowl broadcasts I've helped > > engineer, I can tell you that cell overloading is a major problem. What > > worked great during checkout the day before the game usually leaves you > > hanging on game day. Same with remote broadcasts that have a large > > attendance. when 50,000 or more people gather in the stands and light up > > cellphones there's always a problem. > > de NS5F > > > > > > > > *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* > > > > > >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 5:44 PM, > wrote: > >> > >> Send AMRadio mailing list submissions to > >> amradio at mailman.qth.net > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> amradio-request at mailman.qth.net > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> amradio-owner at mailman.qth.net > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of AMRadio digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. rural landline (FRANK HUGHES hughes) > >> 2. Re: Landline vs cell (Jay Walker) > >> 3. Re: Landline vs cell (Bill Guyger) > >> 4. Re: AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 (C.L. Mitchell) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:04:24 -0400 (EDT) > >> From: "FRANK HUGHES hughes" > >> > >> To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > >> Subject: [AMRadio] rural landline > >> Message-ID: > >> <1571043395.857513.1469484264333.JavaMail.root at embarqmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >> > >> We have one POTS line. > >> Good old Western Electric 500 and 2500 sets. > >> There is no cable out here. Cell coverage in the house is intermittent. > >> The only Internet available is DSL, 10mb tops. > >> ADT fire and burglar alarms use the POTS line, as their cell option > won't > >> work here. > >> > >> > >> I have been told there are 51,000 building permits open here in the far > >> West end of the county, everything that was Orange groves for > >> the last 100 years is now being paved with developments. > >> > >> > >> So possibly a cable company will show up here someday. Or not. > >> We have not had a TV in the house for 30 years now, no longer sure why > we > >> would want one. > >> 73 > >> Frank > >> KJ4OLL > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:23:17 -0500 > >> From: Jay Walker > >> To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > >> Message-ID: > >> < > >> CAHJfY-yvD5-GAqtGWazynwrKLG3eHW64Uq3+NYJ7xiPF52o+Gg at mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> I'll echo the comments on the lack of cellphone audio quality. Ever > since > >> cellphones changed from analog to data compressed digital voice the > overall > >> quality is very poor with too many digital artifacts. Thankfully after > 30 > >> years of carrying a business provided cell 24/7 365, now that I've > retired > >> I no longer have to deal with those devices. Back to the subject of > copper > >> twisted pair POTS, it's reliability is superior to most other personal > >> communications devices as the service has had over 100 years to mature.. > >> de NS5F > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:41:20 -0500 > >> From: Bill Guyger > >> To: Jay Walker > >> Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > >> Message-ID: > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >> > >> Interestingly enough, there are cell phone apps like Luci Live that > gives > >> almost studio audio when using an external mic. We use it sometimes for > >> live interviews rather than sending a remote unit. > >> > >> Bill AD5OL > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>>> On Jul 25, 2016, at 5:23 PM, Jay Walker < > jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I'll echo the comments on the lack of cellphone audio quality. Ever > since > >>> cellphones changed from analog to data compressed digital voice the > >> overall > >>> quality is very poor with too many digital artifacts. Thankfully after > 30 > >>> years of carrying a business provided cell 24/7 365, now that I've > >> retired > >>> I no longer have to deal with those devices. Back to the subject of > >> copper > >>> twisted pair POTS, it's reliability is superior to most other personal > >>> communications devices as the service has had over 100 years to > mature.. > >>> de NS5F > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* > >>> ______________________________________________________________ > >>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >>> AMRadio mailing list > >>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >>> > >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>> Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 4 > >> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 22:44:05 +0000 > >> From: "C.L. Mitchell" > >> To: Jay Walker , > >> "amradio at mailman.qth.net" > >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 > >> Message-ID: > >> < > >> > CY1PR20MB0348B04770CAA76F295C9440820D0 at CY1PR20MB0348.namprd20.prod.outlook.com > >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> People ask why I advise public safety [police, fire, EMS, EMS, etc] > >> departments going to a local or state-wide 800 trunked system to keep > their > >> VHF or UHF licenses. Same logic as below. Simplex [or department-owned > >> repeaters located at the dispatch point] obviously do not die when a > >> computer malfunctions or intra-system links go out. The organization I > >> retired from had people at the Katrina response and they told me that > >> mostly-simplex VHF Hi-band systems still functioned, if nothing more > than > >> mobile-to-mobile. Trunked systems were mostly dead. > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: AMRadio on behalf of Jay > Walker < > >> jay.walker.voiceover at gmail.com> > >> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 3:34 PM > >> To: amradio at mailman.qth.net > >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 > >> > >> I live out in the country and our options for anything but POTS phone > >> service, Microwave point to point WISP internet and cellphone service is > >> limited. There's no DSL/ASL or fiber so at best TELCO can offer limited > >> ISDN. I keep the POTS for one reason. It's as bullet proof as any > >> underground delivery service gets. Plus since the POTS is 'self-powered' > >> long term electrical outages are not a problem. By long-term I mean > weeks > >> long events caused by ice storms. A typical POTS exchange can run > >> unattended on battery systems for a minimum of 72 hours. > >> > >> Since our WISP internet provider is VOIP capable a number of neighbors > >> went with VOIP only. After severe storms they usually end up over here > >> asking to use the phone since the I-Net and local cell tower is down for > >> the count. But like a trusty Timex watch, the twisted pair keeps on > >> working. TCP/IP delivered services are cheap, but they are very prone to > >> outages which is one reason I fear we have placed too much faith in > >> controlling systems via the internet. As much as the IP's would like > you to > >> think of themselves as a 'Hard Service' recent events from Katrina to > Sandy > >> have proven that to be false... > >> 73 de NS5F > >> > >> > >> > >> *Sent from my Commodore 64 Plus...* > >> > >> > >>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:06 PM, > wrote: > >>> > >>> Send AMRadio mailing list submissions to > >>> amradio at mailman.qth.net > >>> > >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>> amradio-request at mailman.qth.net > >>> > >>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>> amradio-owner at mailman.qth.net > >>> > >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>> than "Re: Contents of AMRadio digest..." > >>> > >>> > >>> Today's Topics: > >>> > >>> 1. Re: Landline vs cell (W4AWM at aol.com) > >>> 2. Re: Landline vs cell (Donald Chester) > >>> 3. Re: FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 (Donald Chester) > >>> 4. Re: Landline vs cell (Steve WA1QIX) > >>> 5. Re: Landline vs cell (Oliver Steiner) > >>> 6. Re: Landline vs cell (Bill Guyger) > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Message: 1 > >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:34:53 -0400 > >>> From: W4AWM at aol.com > >>> To: ranchorobbo at gmail.com, mjcal77 at yahoo.com > >>> Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > >>> Message-ID: <4c7d08.74d8fc57.44c77d8d at aol.com> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >>> > >>> Ditto. Once FIOS gets your copper, you can EVER get it back and your > >>> inbox and snail mailbox plus your phone get deluged with incessant > calls > >>> to sign > >>> up or their TV and internet service. > >>> > >>> 73. > >>> > >>> John, W4AWM > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> In a message dated 7/25/2016 7:47:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > >>> ranchorobbo at gmail.com writes: > >>> > >>> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up > >>> for U-verse go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who > >>> dropped their land line around here and regret it. And it is hard to > >>> get it back once you let it go. Give me the copper twisted pair. My > >>> WeCo model 302 in the shack works great. > >>> > >>> 73 > >>> > >>> Rob > >>> K5UJ > >>> > >>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:24 PM, CL in NC via AMRadio > >>> wrote: > >>>> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > >>> cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless > >> phones > >>> in > >>> the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the only > >> ones > >>> that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell phone of > >> any > >>> type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or > rotary > >>> phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps > >>> and > >>> burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in > use. > >>> While > >>> they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might > >>> improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a > >>> quality > >>> phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > >>> ______________________________________________________________ > >>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >>> AMRadio mailing list > >>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >>> > >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>> Message delivered to w4awm at aol.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 2 > >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:05:21 -0500 > >>> From: "Donald Chester" > >>> To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'CL in NC'" > >>> > >>> Cc: "'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service'" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > >>> Message-ID: <000201d1e696$bac6ab00$30540100$@charter.net> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>> > >>>> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up > for > >>> U-verse > >>>> go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their > >>> land > >>>> line around here and regret it > >>>> Rob > >>>> K5UJ > >>> > >>> Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and > RF > >>> from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop out. > >>> > >>> Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told > >> them > >>> he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss > it > >>> further. > >>> > >>> > >>> Don > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 3 > >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:09:39 -0500 > >>> From: "Donald Chester" > >>> To: "'Rob Atkinson'" , "'Discussion of AM > Radio > >>> in the Amateur Service'" > >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] FAA Reauthorization Act H.R. 636 > >>> Message-ID: <000501d1e697$544da580$fce8f080$@charter.net> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>> > >>>> I had family visiting over the weekend and we went for a drive out > west > >>> of > >>>> my QTH yesterday afternoon. Off to the left of the road I saw > >>>> a 100 foot free standing tower with a wind propeller at the top. I > >>>> thought to myself, that guy is going to have to paint and lamp that > >>> thing, > >>> then > >>>> I remembered that in the congressional bill, there is an exclusion for > >>> towers > >>>> with windmill propellers over a certain length. > >>>> As if, that bigger propeller will magically prevent a plane from > >>>> flying into it. You can tell the fixes were in on that legislation. > >>>> > >>>> Rob > >>>> K5UJ > >>> > >>> > >>> And why would a crop duster or any other kind of low-flying aircraft > >> ever > >>> be flying here? > >> > http://www.agaviation.org/files/policyinitiatives/Tower%20Public%20Outreach/ > >>> ad6.pdf > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 4 > >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:02:35 -0500 > >>> From: Steve WA1QIX > >>> To: > >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > >>> Message-ID: <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927 at mx1.piesky.com> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >>> > >>> I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I > >>> want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > >>> > >>> Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > >>> > >>> However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - > >>> converted a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - > >>> kept the same number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - > >>> better than the land line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) > >>> the audio is clean and the frequency response is quite > >>> reasonable. And it's significantly less expensive. > >>> > >>> Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have > >>> to keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your > >>> phones would die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it > >>> alive for some amount of time (don't know how long). > >>> > >>> > >>> At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > >>>> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > >>>> cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless > >>>> phones in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which > >>>> are the only ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to > >>>> find any cell phone of any type that can meet the audio quality of a > >>>> landline pushbutton or rotary phone. I hear dead quiet in my > >>>> landline, but the cell is full of beeps and burps and an occasional > >>>> part of a voice from somewhere else when in use. While they have put > >>>> quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic might improve > >>>> things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a quality > >>>> phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > >>>> > >>>> Charlie, W4MEC in NC > >>>> ______________________________________________________________ > >>>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >>>> AMRadio mailing list > >>>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >>>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >>>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >>>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >>>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >>>> > >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>>> Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- > >>>> No virus found in this message. > >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>>> Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: > >> 07/24/16 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 5 > >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:03:15 -0400 > >>> From: Oliver Steiner > >>> To: Donald Chester > >>> Cc: Rob Atkinson , CL in NC > >>> , Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur > >>> Service > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > >>> Message-ID: > >>> < > >>> CAEnXyFAF-KFu+8V2Mg6GjUuzGr91iOJYrFVhS7zet1jSeKMMWQ at mail.gmail.com> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >>> > >>> For what it's worth: > >>> > >>> I have U-verse Internet, Phone and Cable TV. Have never had a problem > >>> with my transmissions disturbing any of the three services, nor with > >>> the U-verse disturbing my radio reception. > >>> > >>> Ollie > >>> W2QXR > >>> > >>> On 7/25/16, Donald Chester wrote: > >>>>> I'm keeping my landline until they shut it down. Offers to sign up > >> for > >>>> U-verse > >>>>> go riight into the roundfile unopened. I know hams who dropped their > >>>>> land > >>>>> line around here and regret it > >>>>> Rob > >>>>> K5UJ > >>>> > >>>> Plus, U-verse, like BPL, can generate hash all over the HF bands, and > >> RF > >>>> from a nearby transmitter can cause the U-verse connection to drop > out. > >>>> > >>>> Somebody told me he was considering running U-verse, but when he told > >>> them > >>>> he had a ham station they suddenly lost interest and wouldn't discuss > >> it > >>>> further. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Don > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________________________________________ > >>>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >>>> AMRadio mailing list > >>>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >>>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >>>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >>>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >>>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >>>> > >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>>> Message delivered to steinerviolinist at gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> http://oliversteiner.com > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 6 > >>> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:06:42 -0500 > >>> From: Bill Guyger > >>> To: Steve WA1QIX > >>> Cc: amradio at mailman.qth.net > >>> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell > >>> Message-ID: <0BCC5139-830C-4292-98FC-E8567C010BC2 at yahoo.com> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >>> > >>> FWIW I got rid of my POTS service and DSL several years ago because the > >>> lines in my part of Dallas are absolute crap. Every time it rained they > >> got > >>> real noisy and after several attempts at finding clean pairs I just > told > >>> AT&T to cram it. The people next door went thru hell with cable > internet. > >>> They then tried Uverse and the technician screwed their house up so > badly > >>> the wife wouldn't let the tech back thru the door even with his > >> supervisor > >>> on site. > >>> > >>> So basically I'm wireless...... or witless or both. > >>> > >>> Bill AD5OL > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>>> On Jul 25, 2016, at 3:02 PM, Steve WA1QIX wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I still have a landline here, but it costs over $100/month because I > >>> want call forwarding and caller ID (which are both expensive). > >>>> > >>>> Have been considering dropping it, but I do like the reliability. > >>>> > >>>> However, recently I got a "cable" (Comcast) delivered phone - > converted > >>> a 2nd land line I had over to the Comcast phone service - kept the same > >>> number, etc. THAT service is of VERY high quality - better than the > land > >>> line, in fact. It's DEAD silent (no hum, etc) the audio is clean and > the > >>> frequency response is quite reasonable. And it's significantly less > >>> expensive. > >>>> > >>>> Could be an option, I suppose. During a power outage, you would have > >> to > >>> keep your local cable interface powered up, or obviously your phones > >> would > >>> die. The box I got has a battery which will keep it alive for some > >> amount > >>> of time (don't know how long). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> At 02:24 PM 7/24/2016, CL in NC via AMRadio wrote: > >>>>> My land line runs about $40 a month for just phone service plus the > >>> cheapest AT&T long distance option. Along with the usual cordless > phones > >>> in the house, I still have a couple rotary dial sets, which are the > only > >>> ones that work during a power outage. I have yet to find any cell > phone > >> of > >>> any type that can meet the audio quality of a landline pushbutton or > >> rotary > >>> phone. I hear dead quiet in my landline, but the cell is full of beeps > >> and > >>> burps and an occasional part of a voice from somewhere else when in > use. > >>> While they have put quality cameras in cell phones now, a better mic > >> might > >>> improve things. The issue now is the masses that have no idea what a > >>> quality phone connection sounds like, and apparently don't really care. > >>>>> > >>>>> Charlie, W4MEC in NC > >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ > >>>>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >>>>> AMRadio mailing list > >>>>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >>>>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >>>>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >>>>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >>>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net > with > >>>>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >>>>> > >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>>>> Message delivered to wa1qix at piesky.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- > >>>>> No virus found in this message. > >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>>>> Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12675 - Release Date: > >>> 07/24/16 > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________________________________________ > >>>> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >>>> AMRadio mailing list > >>>> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >>>> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >>>> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >>>> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >>>> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >>>> > >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>>> Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Subject: Digest Footer > >>> > >>> ______________________________________________________________ > >>> AMRadio mailing list > >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html > >>> Post: mailto:AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> End of AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 10 > >>> **************************************** > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > >> AMRadio mailing list > >> Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > >> List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > >> List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >> Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >> To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > >> the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >> Message delivered to rsq14adam1 at hotmail.com > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Subject: Digest Footer > >> > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> AMRadio mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html > >> Post: mailto:AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> End of AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 12 > >> **************************************** > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > > AMRadio mailing list > > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to bguyger at yahoo.com > > From donroden at hiwaay.net Mon Jul 25 23:29:40 2016 From: donroden at hiwaay.net (donroden at hiwaay.net) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 22:29:40 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] AMRadio Digest, Vol 150, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <65ac6d81-efd2-d7bd-4154-b571c4c5762c@md.metrocast.net> References: <65ac6d81-efd2-d7bd-4154-b571c4c5762c@md.metrocast.net> Message-ID: <20160725222940.Horde.8JACfiTSddvZo3P11f5AToj@webmail.hiwaay.net> > Tom/W4OKW > > 14,000+ flight hours and all landings and takeoffs are even! Please don't tell me Mum I'm a pilot, she thinks I play piano in a whorehouse. Don W4DNR 2,000 flight hours , but I was buying the gas. From ka1kaq at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 13:47:14 2016 From: ka1kaq at gmail.com (Todd, KA1KAQ) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:47:14 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927@mx1.piesky.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > I refuse to have a cell phone conversation that lasts longer than a > minute or two. To me it is a tool to transmit information like "I'll > meet you at two at the supermarket." not much more than that. Any > real phone call for me has to be on a land line. > Agreed. I recently had to convert my old flip phone because they are no longer going to support 2G. The replacement lacks coverage in some areas, so I bit the bullet and went with a new 'smart' phone (a promise I'd made the wife a while back anyway). You should've seen the Verizon wireless salesman when he saw my old phone. He couldn't understand the concept of using a phone just as a phone. Told him I have a laptop for emailing, much easier to read and more comfortable to use. Cell phone is seldom on, only when I want to use it. Otherwise it becomes an electronic leash like a pager. My analog cell phone from last century had excellent audio. As soon as they started the switch to digital in 2000, audio quality went down the tubes. I have an old WWII surplus rotary phone for the station. Everyone comments on its great sound whenever I use it. > Steve, I've heard those cable telephones with the battery backups > didn't make it long during the Sandy power outage. Folks who still > had POTS were the only ones with phone service. > The copper stays up only as long as the local/main office has diesel to power their big Detroit Diesel gensets. So long as they can keep the fuel trucks rolling and lines aren't down, they're fine. Copper landlines have become very expensive to maintain due to the migration to cellphones. Frontier took over all of Verizon's lines down in NC. With DSL I think we were paying around $68/month. The new place here in VA already had FiOS installed, probably just as well. At some point copper will likely go away other than for specific, dedicated uses. As to the battery backup, it really depends on battery size, age, etc. The FiOS box has a gel cell in it almost the size of a motorcycle battery. About $30 to replace, you can buy it and install it yourself. They claim 12+ hours for phone use, I'd expect no more than 4 unless it's brand new. We had Time Warner Cable for a brief spell, lost phone for several days after a big thunder storm took out a splitter. No battery backup for the modem, so when you lose power, you lose phone. That combined with the worst customer service on earth got us back to a landline and DSL, which wasn't noticeably slower than the TWC 'turbo' service. ~ Todd, KA1KAQ/4 From nbcblue at hotmail.com Tue Jul 26 14:10:03 2016 From: nbcblue at hotmail.com (W. Harris) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:10:03 +0000 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927@mx1.piesky.com> , Message-ID: The old farmer finally gave in and had a phone installed. One day while another farmer was visiting, the phone rang, the owner ignored it. The other asked, "Aren't you going to answer that?" "Nope" came the reply, "I had that put in for my convenience". I feel the same way about my cell phone, I seldom carry the thing. Bill - K5MIL ________________________________ From: AMRadio on behalf of Todd, KA1KAQ Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 5:47 PM To: Rob Atkinson Cc: Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > I refuse to have a cell phone conversation that lasts longer than a > minute or two. To me it is a tool to transmit information like "I'll > meet you at two at the supermarket." not much more than that. Any > real phone call for me has to be on a land line. > Agreed. I recently had to convert my old flip phone because they are no longer going to support 2G. The replacement lacks coverage in some areas, so I bit the bullet and went with a new 'smart' phone (a promise I'd made the wife a while back anyway). You should've seen the Verizon wireless salesman when he saw my old phone. He couldn't understand the concept of using a phone just as a phone. Told him I have a laptop for emailing, much easier to read and more comfortable to use. Cell phone is seldom on, only when I want to use it. Otherwise it becomes an electronic leash like a pager. From manualman at juno.com Tue Jul 26 14:43:43 2016 From: manualman at juno.com (manualman at juno.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:43:43 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell Message-ID: When Sandy came through the metro NY/NJ area in 2013, POTS service went down in many areas. Telephone lines and poles were scattered all over the place. Several central switching offices were flooded badly. Some were never restored. For others, it took months to get them back up and running. Most of the area had no above or below ground electricity for a week or more but I never lost cell phone service. For the cell phone, Hi-Fi quality is unimportant to me. If I can make the connection and the messages are passed and readable, that's all that counts to me. I got rid of POTS service many years ago. Too much cross talk, dead air, fast busy, and other anomalies brought reliability down to near zero. My in house landline is now through my cable service. Works extremely well and I can even use my 500-type telephone on it. Pete, wa2cwa On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:47:14 -0400 "Todd, KA1KAQ" writes: > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Rob Atkinson > wrote: > > > I refuse to have a cell phone conversation that lasts longer than > a > > minute or two. To me it is a tool to transmit information like > "I'll > > meet you at two at the supermarket." not much more than that. > Any > > real phone call for me has to be on a land line. > > > > Agreed. I recently had to convert my old flip phone because they are > no > longer going to support 2G. The replacement lacks coverage in some > areas, > so I bit the bullet and went with a new 'smart' phone (a promise I'd > made > the wife a while back anyway). You should've seen the Verizon > wireless > salesman when he saw my old phone. He couldn't understand the > concept of > using a phone just as a phone. Told him I have a laptop for > emailing, much > easier to read and more comfortable to use. Cell phone is seldom on, > only > when I want to use it. Otherwise it becomes an electronic leash like > a > pager. > > My analog cell phone from last century had excellent audio. As soon > as they > started the switch to digital in 2000, audio quality went down the > tubes. I > have an old WWII surplus rotary phone for the station. Everyone > comments on > its great sound whenever I use it. > > > > Steve, I've heard those cable telephones with the battery backups > > didn't make it long during the Sandy power outage. Folks who > still > > had POTS were the only ones with phone service. > > > > The copper stays up only as long as the local/main office has diesel > to > power their big Detroit Diesel gensets. So long as they can keep the > fuel > trucks rolling and lines aren't down, they're fine. > > Copper landlines have become very expensive to maintain due to the > migration to cellphones. Frontier took over all of Verizon's lines > down in > NC. With DSL I think we were paying around $68/month. The new place > here in > VA already had FiOS installed, probably just as well. At some point > copper > will likely go away other than for specific, dedicated uses. > > As to the battery backup, it really depends on battery size, age, > etc. The > FiOS box has a gel cell in it almost the size of a motorcycle > battery. > About $30 to replace, you can buy it and install it yourself. They > claim > 12+ hours for phone use, I'd expect no more than 4 unless it's brand > new. > > We had Time Warner Cable for a brief spell, lost phone for several > days > after a big thunder storm took out a splitter. No battery backup for > the > modem, so when you lose power, you lose phone. That combined with > the worst > customer service on earth got us back to a landline and DSL, which > wasn't > noticeably slower than the TWC 'turbo' service. > > ~ Todd, KA1KAQ/4 From ne1s at securespeed.us Tue Jul 26 15:01:32 2016 From: ne1s at securespeed.us (Larry Szendrei) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 15:01:32 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927@mx1.piesky.com> Message-ID: <4619add8-f7c5-5cf4-ec3f-06ea480eab72@securespeed.us> On 7/26/16 1:47 PM, Todd, KA1KAQ wrote: > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > > Agreed. I recently had to convert my old flip phone because they are no > longer going to support 2G. The replacement lacks coverage in some areas, > so I bit the bullet and went with a new 'smart' phone (a promise I'd made > the wife a while back anyway). You should've seen the Verizon wireless > salesman when he saw my old phone. He couldn't understand the concept of > using a phone just as a phone. Told him I have a laptop for emailing, much > easier to read and more comfortable to use. Cell phone is seldom on, only > when I want to use it. Otherwise it becomes an electronic leash like a > pager. > I don't have a cell phone at all, and Elaine has a clamshell phone like your old one. She only uses it as a phone, although it is possible to connect to and browse the internet on it (but not in any practical way). Elaine sometimes loans me the phone when I go to a hamfest without her. > Copper landlines have become very expensive to maintain due to the > migration to cellphones. Frontier took over all of Verizon's lines down in > NC. With DSL I think we were paying around $68/month. Sounds about right - I pay $67/month for the landline and DSL package, which includes unlimited long-distance within the US, all provided through a small local company. 73, -Larry/NE1S From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 19:18:33 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:18:33 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:43 PM, wrote: > When Sandy came through the metro NY/NJ area in 2013, POTS service went > down in many areas. Telephone lines and poles were scattered all over the > place. Several central switching offices were flooded badly. Some were > never restored. For others, it took months to get them back up and > running. >From what I heard it was different up on L.I. and a bit north of NYC. Most of the area had no above or below ground electricity for a > week or more but I never lost cell phone service. For the cell phone, > Hi-Fi quality is unimportant to me. If I can make the connection and the > messages are passed and readable, that's all that counts to me. I heard most home Verizon fake land-lines went dead when their little lead acid battery backups ran down after around an hour. I got rid > of POTS service many years ago. Too much cross talk, dead air, fast busy, > and other anomalies brought reliability down to near zero. Pete, you must be the only person in the entire U.S. that had cross talk, dead air and other anomalies on the good old copper twisted pair. We have an afternoon talk show host here on one of the big AMs who will only take calls from people on land-lines. He got so fed up with the crappy cell phone audio that he told people to not bother to call unless they were on a land line. Oh yeah, I can do one thing no one can do on a cell phone. I can slam down the handset when I hang up, but I rarely do that. I know, some of you will be surprised thinking I do that all the time, but the old Model 302 can take it. 73 Rob K5UJ From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 19:22:55 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <801988250.4593575.1469388250523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <201607251856.u6PIugkJ064927@mx1.piesky.com> Message-ID: > The copper stays up only as long as the local/main office has diesel to > power their big Detroit Diesel gensets. So long as they can keep the fuel > trucks rolling and lines aren't down, they're fine. > I heard most central offices have a zillion lead acid batteries also. I also carry my flip phone only when I think I might need it. Otherwise it stays home. I tried to get Xfinity internet service here, but they'd never show up. After two attempts I blew it off because I figured if this is how they treat a prospect, then the customer service must not even exist. 73 Rob K5UJ From manualman at juno.com Tue Jul 26 21:55:35 2016 From: manualman at juno.com (manualman at juno.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 21:55:35 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell Message-ID: My response **** Pete, wa2cwa On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:18:33 -0500 Rob Atkinson writes: **** What's a Verizon fake land-line? > I heard most home Verizon fake land-lines went dead when their > little > lead acid battery backups ran down after around an hour. > > **** With above ground telephone lines, which are subjected to more weathering, cross talk is not uncommon. Cross-talk during the winter months, with snow clinging to wires up on the poles and water/snow leakage into the cross-connect boxes, was always a problem. I could have multiple conversations without having to dial any numbers by just lifting the handset. I have a friend who still has Verizon POTS(or whoever now supports that part of the business). Recently, he lost dial tone and obviously he could not dial out. From his cell phone, he called the service number and they told him they would be there in 5 to 7 days to check it out. They showed up on the 7th day, diddled up on the pole and at the local cross-connect box and dial tone came back. Lasted about a week and then dial tone went out again and he had to repeat the process. You said: "good old copper twisted pair" **** A better reality today is "old copper twisted pair". > > Pete, you must be the only person in the entire U.S. that had cross > talk, dead air and other anomalies on the good old copper twisted > pair. > > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 12:40:09 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:40:09 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: : > > **** What's a Verizon fake land-line? > It's one of those bogus computer phones that pretends to be analog but does an A to D and your phone call is really VOIP. > **** With above ground telephone lines, which are subjected to more > weathering, cross talk is not uncommon. Cross-talk during the winter > months, with snow clinging to wires up on the poles and water/snow > leakage into the cross-connect boxes, was always a problem. I could have > multiple conversations without having to dial any numbers by just lifting > the handset. I have never in my life come anywhere close to that except for a few years in the early 1970s when my parents were on an 8 party line. our ring was two shorts and a long. you had to get used to people listening in. Now people have their phone conversations anywhere standing right next to you at the store and out in the open, so today a party line would probably be fine with most. Rob K5UJ From k4kyv at charter.net Wed Jul 27 14:12:29 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 13:12:29 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000c01d1e832$70517350$50f459f0$@charter.net> > > **** With above ground telephone lines, which are subjected to more > > weathering, cross talk is not uncommon. Cross-talk during the winter > > months, with snow clinging to wires up on the poles and water/snow > > leakage into the cross-connect boxes, was always a problem. I could > > have multiple conversations without having to dial any numbers by just > > lifting the handset. > > I have never in my life come anywhere close to that except for a few years in > the early 1970s when my parents were on an 8 party line. our ring was two > shorts and a long. you had to get used to people listening in. Now people > have their phone conversations anywhere standing right next to you at the > store and out in the open, so today a party line would probably be fine with > most. I can remember years ago, sometimes faint conversations could be heard in the background, especially during long-distance calls. It seemed to be more noticeable at times, perhaps after a heavy rainstorm somewhere in the country. I vaguely remember hearing about a fad amongst adolescents, to dial some service number that was supposed to be known only to telephone repair personnel but somehow got leaked to the public. You could dial that number and after the dial tone went away, hear faint cross-talk from phone conversations in other parts of the country. Kids would shout their phone number into the mouthpiece, and occasionally someone somewhere else would copy it and dial back, and conversations would ensue between total strangers, kind of like ham radio or on-line chat where you never knew whom you might be hooking up with. I remember party lines too. At one time we were on an 8-party line; the thing was practically useless because there would always be someone using it, usually bored housewives having two-hour conversations with other bored housewives. If you really needed to use the phone you could politely ask for the line. Sometimes the other parties would cooperate, and sometimes not. A "private line" was several times more expensive than a party line, and one was not always available. A trick used back before my time to clear a party line, in the days of candle-stick phones and the wooden wall ones with the crank, when phones had a separate earpiece (receiver) and mouthpiece (microphone), would be to hold the receiver directly over the mouthpiece to cause a feedback howl, QRMing the conversation hoping to make the other parties go away, something that occasionally ended in violence. Don k4kyv From manualman at juno.com Wed Jul 27 14:47:21 2016 From: manualman at juno.com (manualman at juno.com) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:47:21 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell Message-ID: As a kid I remember, when we lived in PA, having a party line. To long ago to remember how big a party line it was. When we moved to NJ, we had a private line. As time progressed, cross-talk, especially during the winter/snowy months, was very common. As time further progressed, lost of dial tone, fast busy, lack of echo canceling, random rings, etc. became more common. As time further progressed, local and long distance carriers became separate, requiring separate bills each month, and each with their own unique anomalies. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a telephone repairman anywhere in my area up on a pole or at a cross-connect box doing any repairs. On some of the local streets here which still have poles and wiring, you can see telephone lines disconnected/broken dangling in the breeze and some with their outer insulation blowing in the breeze. The friend that I mentioned in the previous thread that has POTS and had called for service was changed around $90 for them to come out in a week to fix his problem which the initial repair only lasted a week. I had no regrets leaving POTS in the wind as a almost dead service even though I was employed at Bell Labs and AT&T for many years. Even during the early years of cell service, the writing on the wall was that the POTS life-cycle was going to reach it's end of life for many customers in the near future. Pete, wa2cwa On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:40:09 -0500 Rob Atkinson writes: > > > **** With above ground telephone lines, which are subjected to > more > > weathering, cross talk is not uncommon. Cross-talk during the > winter > > months, with snow clinging to wires up on the poles and > water/snow > > leakage into the cross-connect boxes, was always a problem. I > could have > > multiple conversations without having to dial any numbers by just > lifting > > the handset. > > I have never in my life come anywhere close to that except for a > few > years in the early 1970s when my parents were on an 8 party line. > our > ring was two shorts and a long. you had to get used to people > listening in. Now people have their phone conversations anywhere > standing right next to you at the store and out in the open, so > today > a party line would probably be fine with most. > > Rob > K5UJ > From w5jo at brightok.net Wed Jul 27 19:16:50 2016 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:16:50 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] : Landline vs cell Message-ID: <50F985475DAE4821BDE47AA5A8B45727@JimPC> -----Original Message----- From: w5jo at brightok.net You must have had Atlantic Bell, which was notorious for that kind of service Pete. Living in the central part of the US I had a problem only one time when we lived far from the CO. They changed pair and everything was like living in the real world, even Mountain Bell which was not all that good either but had good service. Where I live now the local phone service is by an independent provider that is aggressive. I live about 10 miles from the CO and they buried fiber from the CO to a node about three tenths of a mile from me. The final stretch is copper and they multiplex on it bringing me local service, free US long distance, reduced rate international calls and DSL at either 4 or 10 meg. I have the cheaper one because I don't run a business any more. Altogether my bill is less than people who have switched to Vonage or comparable. To have local phone services, TV, and IS, they pay about 30 bucks a month more than I do. The nice thing about my DSL is I can stream programs on it. The striking thing now is the lack of knowledge about copper by the repairmen, especially the big companies. They don't know how to fix it and have to dust off the old test equipment in the warehouse to do that. Here all tests are conducted at the CO by an automated system that can tell them which lightning protector is bad. At one time the school where I worked had a contract to provide classes and basic education for techs that worked for the phone company. They discontinued them in about 97 or 98 and switched to wanting wireless classes, no RF included because of built in test equipment on their switches and cell sites. Recently AT&T told its employees that they better upgrade their knowledge base by taking classes in their field of expertise, that is was their responsibility, not the company's. AT&T was not going to teach them the basics, only provide equipment specific training. That did make the CWA a bit angry, but they bought off on it recognizing if they did not participate they would be gone. I have good local service and, recently, they upgraded their switch. I believe the batteries in the node will last about 24 hours in the event of a power failure. If there is any blurb in the system the automatic notification system will let them know faster than I can dial repair service. All things considered I prefer having a wireline because of the security of it over a radio that anyone can decipher. That wireless thing is nothing more than a back up. Beside that my house is nearly a Faraday Shield and in most rooms the wireless doesn't work. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- As a kid I remember, when we lived in PA, having a party line. To long ago to remember how big a party line it was. When we moved to NJ, we had a private line. As time progressed, cross-talk, especially during the winter/snowy months, was very common. As time further progressed, lost of dial tone, fast busy, lack of echo canceling, random rings, etc. became more common. As time further progressed, local and long distance carriers became separate, requiring separate bills each month, and each with their own unique anomalies. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a telephone repairman anywhere in my area up on a pole or at a cross-connect box doing any repairs. On some of the local streets here which still have poles and wiring, you can see telephone lines disconnected/broken dangling in the breeze and some with their outer insulation blowing in the breeze. The friend that I mentioned in the previous thread that has POTS and had called for service was changed around $90 for them to come out in a week to fix his problem which the initial repair only lasted a week. I had no regrets leaving POTS in the wind as a almost dead service even though I was employed at Bell Labs and AT&T for many years. Even during the early years of cell service, the writing on the wall was that the POTS life-cycle was going to reach it's end of life for many customers in the near future. Pete, wa2cwa From nbcblue at hotmail.com Wed Jul 27 19:24:23 2016 From: nbcblue at hotmail.com (W. Harris) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 23:24:23 +0000 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: <000c01d1e832$70517350$50f459f0$@charter.net> References: , <000c01d1e832$70517350$50f459f0$@charter.net> Message-ID: Way back in my days of employment as a Customer Engineer with a major computer company, one of the accounts I was assigned to was the major phone company for the southwest. The CE room where we kept our supplies and test equipment was in the back of one of the relay rooms. We used to clip a high impedance ear phone across relays and listen in. You got to hear some really interesting conversations, especially on the hooker phone lines. One prank we used to pull as kids was to dial up a random number out of the phone book and pretend we were from the phone company (always got the kid with the most adult sounding voice). When the party answered we would tell them we were doing phone line maintenance and ask them if they would put the receiver down, step away and leave it for a few minutes while we blow out the lines. Bill - K5MIL ________________________________ I can remember years ago, sometimes faint conversations could be heard in the background, especially during long-distance calls. It seemed to be more noticeable at times, perhaps after a heavy rainstorm somewhere in the country. I vaguely remember hearing about a fad amongst adolescents, to dial some service number that was supposed to be known only to telephone repair personnel but somehow got leaked to the public. You could dial that number and after the dial tone went away, hear faint cross-talk from phone conversations in other parts of the country. Kids would shout their phone number into the mouthpiece, and occasionally someone somewhere else would copy it and dial back, and conversations would ensue between total strangers, kind of like ham radio or on-line chat where you never knew whom you might be hooking up with. Don k4kyv ______________________________________________________________ From ranickel at comcast.net Wed Jul 27 22:12:13 2016 From: ranickel at comcast.net (Robert Nickels) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 21:12:13 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Along the lines of this thread, I thought I'd toss out a plug for the book "Exploding the Phone" by Phil Lapsley. It's a great read and while most of the phone phreaks weren't hams, one of the most notorious was, and the story of how these kids reverse-engineered the phone network will strike a chord with any of us who couldn't resist taking the screws out of every electronic gizmo in the house to see what was inside and how it worked. For anyone who is interested in getting a sense for the book, here is a 55 minute presentation by the author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlHN-9S9VWo 73, Bob W9RAN From k9cox at charter.net Thu Jul 28 01:06:44 2016 From: k9cox at charter.net (Ross Stenberg) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 00:06:44 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Irony..Hams arguing for wired vs wireless From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 05:15:46 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 04:15:46 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Robert Nickels wrote: > Along the lines of this thread, I thought I'd toss out a plug for the book > "Exploding the Phone" by Phil Lapsley. It's a great read and while most of > the phone phreaks weren't hams, one of the most notorious was, and the story > of how these kids reverse-engineered the phone network will strike a chord > with any of us who couldn't resist taking the screws out of every electronic > gizmo in the house to see what was inside and how it worked. > Years ago, sometime in the '70s I think, Wayne Green W2NSD/1 published an article in 73 on how to build a blue box. I don't know who wrote the article. He got in so much hot water with AT&T that he had to actually get back and destroy as many issues of 73 the month the article ran as possible. Rob K5UJ From wz5q at wz5q.net Thu Jul 28 06:56:30 2016 From: wz5q at wz5q.net (Mike - WZ5Q) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 05:56:30 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5799E4DE.7040806@wz5q.net> > Irony..Hams arguing for wired vs wireless That gave me a chuckle. In my memories, the ones that I can actually remember, we had South Central Bell down in the Swamps of Southern Louisiana. The service was always great. The line was dead quite with hardly ever any other problems. When the Horrorcanes would blow thru and knock out the power for weeks on end, we usually always had the landline available for use. On the rare occasion we did have a problem, service was always prompt. I was always amazed at the depth of knowledge the technicians possessed. Most of those guys were pretty smart cookies on many different facets. Telephone Quality and Service started a gradual downhill slope in the Swamps when BellSouth took over operations in the 80's. The slope steepened quite a bit in the 90's and the Technicians were not of the same caliber as experienced in the past. When we finally sold the River House last year, phone Quality and Service was just horrid. We were paying $45.00 a month for basic service with Caller ID, and the Long Distance was like $.05 a minute. I have no landline at the new QTH. I never really liked talking on the phone, it was used for business, logistics, emergencies, or very short conversations. I am pretty much the same way with the cell phone. I mainly carry it for logistics and emergencies. I must admit though, it seems I am now "texting" more these days. I got sucked into this new thing about a year ago when I got a replacement phone that had that capability and businesses/people started to send me texts. The GPS is pretty neat too, it can be quite convenient sometimes. Then there is the almighty Google... 73 Mike WZ5Q On 7/28/2016 12:06 AM, Ross Stenberg wrote: > Irony..Hams arguing for wired vs wireless > > > ______________________________________________________________ > From mark.k3msb at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 07:50:23 2016 From: mark.k3msb at gmail.com (Mark K3MSB) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 07:50:23 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] Landline vs cell In-Reply-To: References: <000c01d1e832$70517350$50f459f0$@charter.net> Message-ID: >>"I had that put in for my convenience". I feel the same way about my cell phone, I seldom carry the thing." If a person lets a cell phone control them, it?s not the phone?s problem, it?s theirs. Learn to manage technology. It?s only going to get worse. I?ve had a smart phone for years and carry it with me mostly all the time. I enjoy the convenience of being able to surf the net when and where I want to. If I get a call from a number not in my directory it goes to voice mail. If I get a call from a number in my directory, I?ll answer it or not depending on where I?m at etc. I, like most of you, get annoyed when people blather into their cell phones and disturb others in a restaurant setting etc; that?s not the phones problem; that?s the person?s problem. I have a laptop and a desktop in my office. I rarely take the laptop home with me; usually it?s when I decide to work from home due to bad weather in the winter, or when I need to be at home for a delivery etc. Unlike those that that take their laptops home with them, people at the office don?t expect me to answer email after work hours. Why? Because I?ve managed their expectations. A very select few people at the office have my cell phone number. They know not to give it out. I have various coworker?s private cell phone numbers and have efused to give it out to supervisors. It?s a private number, and I tell them I can?t give it out without permission. End of conversation. When people complain that cell phones and other mobile electronics are too controlling, tell them to look in a mirror. They?ll see the problem, and it?s not the phone. Mark K3MSB From manualman at juno.com Thu Jul 28 17:10:45 2016 From: manualman at juno.com (manualman at juno.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:10:45 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] : Landline vs cell Message-ID: Actually it was NJ Bell that became part of Bell Atlantic and then eventually became Verizon. Although I have cell capability here, I use it primarily when I'm away from the home. At home I have cable that bundled TV, Internet, and phone service into one package. 400 channels on the TV, 100 MB Internet, and more features on my phone then I can remember. Overall, phone quality and service has been great for years whether I'm using my 500-type phone or a solid-state phone. I've had some horrible sounding phones over the years that all eventually went into the trash. I can even use the cell phone to access my cable company's 1.5 million Wi-Fi hot spots when I'm out running around. I would never go back to POTS even if they gold-plated all the deteriorating telephone lines and promised "reasonable" service. Pete, wa2cwa On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:16:50 -0500 writes: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: w5jo at brightok.net > > You must have had Atlantic Bell, which was notorious for that kind > of > service Pete. Living in the central part of the US I had a problem > only one > time when we lived far from the CO. They changed pair and > everything was > like living in the real world, even Mountain Bell which was not all > that > good either but had good service. > > Where I live now the local phone service is by an independent > provider that > is aggressive. I live about 10 miles from the CO and they buried > fiber from > the CO to a node about three tenths of a mile from me. The final > stretch is > copper and they multiplex on it bringing me local service, free US > long > distance, reduced rate international calls and DSL at either 4 or 10 > meg. I > have the cheaper one because I don't run a business any more. > Altogether my > bill is less than people who have switched to Vonage or comparable. > To have > local phone services, TV, and IS, they pay about 30 bucks a month > more than > I do. The nice thing about my DSL is I can stream programs on it. > > The striking thing now is the lack of knowledge about copper by the > repairmen, especially the big companies. They don't know how to fix > it and > have to dust off the old test equipment in the warehouse to do that. > Here > all tests are conducted at the CO by an automated system that can > tell them > which lightning protector is bad. At one time the school where I > worked had > a contract to provide classes and basic education for techs that > worked for > the phone company. They discontinued them in about 97 or 98 and > switched to > wanting wireless classes, no RF included because of built in test > equipment > on their switches and cell sites. > > Recently AT&T told its employees that they better upgrade their > knowledge > base by taking classes in their field of expertise, that is was > their > responsibility, not the company's. AT&T was not going to teach them > the > basics, only provide equipment specific training. That did make the > CWA a > bit angry, but they bought off on it recognizing if they did not > participate > they would be gone. > > I have good local service and, recently, they upgraded their switch. > I > believe the batteries in the node will last about 24 hours in the > event of a > power failure. If there is any blurb in the system the automatic > notification system will let them know faster than I can dial > repair > service. > > All things considered I prefer having a wireline because of the > security of > it over a radio that anyone can decipher. That wireless thing is > nothing > more than a back up. Beside that my house is nearly a Faraday > Shield and in > most rooms the wireless doesn't work. > > Jim > W5JO From k4kyv at charter.net Fri Jul 29 17:19:17 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 16:19:17 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] HARA Arena to close Message-ID: <001501d1e9de$dd601c50$982054f0$@charter.net> Looks like this past spring's Hamvention was the last, at least at the HARA Arena. The hamfest people say it will be relocated to another venue in the Dayton area, but gave no specifics. http://www.whio.com/news/business/hara-arena-to-close/nr66C/ From Foltarz at rocketmail.com Fri Jul 29 17:32:10 2016 From: Foltarz at rocketmail.com (Mark Foltarz) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:32:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] HARA Arena to close In-Reply-To: <001501d1e9de$dd601c50$982054f0$@charter.net> References: <001501d1e9de$dd601c50$982054f0$@charter.net> Message-ID: <762512687.8089014.1469827930822.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I don't have any particular fondness for the Hara arena - or the Trotwood parking enforcement ! That place is a dump !I went to the Hamvention this year to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the first time I went. I could not believe how bad the entire site had gotten.It has been about 8 years since the last time I attended and it was not in good shape back then.And who could forget the exploding latrines of '97? I'm sure whatever venue DARA chooses things ?will work out fine. de KA4JVY Mark From: Donald Chester To: amradio at mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:19 PM Subject: [AMRadio] HARA Arena to close Looks like this past spring's Hamvention was the last, at least at the HARA Arena. The hamfest people say it will be relocated to another venue in the Dayton area, but gave no specifics. http://www.whio.com/news/business/hara-arena-to-close/nr66C/ ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to foltarz at rocketmail.com From k4kyv at charter.net Fri Jul 29 19:36:51 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 18:36:51 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FW: HARA Arena to close References: <001501d1e9de$dd601c50$982054f0$@charter.net> <762512687.8089014.1469827930822.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002001d1e9f2$151c03d0$3f540b70$@charter.net> > It has been about 8 years since the last time I attended and it was > not in good shape back then.And who could forget the exploding > latrines of '97? > de KA4JVY Unless the same thing happened twice, it was a lot more recent than that. I was there and as I recall, it was only about 5 years ago. Even if they do find a good place, hopefully a better one, I predict attendance will drop precipitously. I've seen it happen before; a longtime hamfest changes venue and it takes years, if ever, for attendance to fully recover. That's what happened to the Cincinnati hamfest, which used to be almost as good as Dayton. The old Strickers Grove venue closed, and they moved to a very pleasant new one, with plenty of open space adorned with shade trees, but the hamfest never fully recovered. Last I heard, they still have it every year, but it has moved to yet another location and has dwindled to a small local event. That's similar to what I heard happened with Shelby, NC, but they managed to get the old place back a couple of years later. That's one I always wanted to attend, but never quite made it. Don k4kyv From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 19:37:11 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 18:37:11 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] HARA Arena to close In-Reply-To: <762512687.8089014.1469827930822.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <001501d1e9de$dd601c50$982054f0$@charter.net> <762512687.8089014.1469827930822.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Mark Foltarz via AMRadio wrote: > I don't have any particular fondness for the Hara arena - or the Trotwood parking enforcement ! > That place is a dump !I went to the Hamvention this year to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the first time I went. I could not believe how bad the entire site had gotten.It has been about 8 years since the last time I attended and it was not in good shape back then.And who could forget the exploding latrines of '97? > I'm sure whatever venue DARA chooses things will work out fine. We'll see. My only problem with HARA was the pavement outside. If they had paved the flea market lot it would have been okay for me at least. Maybe they'll find a new QTH and attendance will pick up. The only danger is if a new location costs enough to where they have to raise the fee for a flea market spot, turning off some sellers of parts. The really good stuff from my experience comes from individuals and clubs or groups of hams, liquidating one or two SK estates. If they go too high dollar fancy (like a professional trade show) and regular hams selling old parts are turned off then it will be pointless to go except maybe for a day to socialize. 73 Rob K5UJ From w5jo at brightok.net Fri Jul 29 20:21:37 2016 From: w5jo at brightok.net (w5jo at brightok.net) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:21:37 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FW: HARA Arena to close In-Reply-To: <002001d1e9f2$151c03d0$3f540b70$@charter.net> References: <001501d1e9de$dd601c50$982054f0$@charter.net><762512687.8089014.1469827930822.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002001d1e9f2$151c03d0$3f540b70$@charter.net> Message-ID: <683CE2CA76E541D3AC6A003AFC9C6AC6@JimPC> The Oklahoma City hamfest, Ham Holiday, is an example of what you say. In the past 10 years they have moved so many times that I call them gypsies. About 10 years back they were in a State Fairgrounds building that allowed people to drive in and unload, now you better bring some sort of conveyance to move what you want to sell. Attendance is less than half of what it was 10 years back, probably 150 vs. around 500 in the past. Poor performance, but the people running the clubs involved are not worried about heavy equipment. It doesn't take much to move a 2 meter rig from the car to a table. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- Even if they do find a good place, hopefully a better one, I predict attendance will drop precipitously. I've seen it happen before; a longtime hamfest changes venue and it takes years, if ever, for attendance to fully recover. Don k4kyv From k4kyv at charter.net Fri Jul 29 20:24:46 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:24:46 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] HARA Arena to close In-Reply-To: References: <001501d1e9de$dd601c50$982054f0$@charter.net> <762512687.8089014.1469827930822.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000101d1e9f8$c69882e0$53c988a0$@charter.net> > The only danger is if a new location costs enough to where they have to raise > the fee for a flea market spot, turning off some sellers of parts. The really > good stuff from my experience comes from individuals and clubs or groups of > hams, liquidating one or two SK estates. If they go too high dollar fancy (like > a professional trade > show) and regular hams selling old parts are turned off then it will be > pointless to go except maybe for a day to socialize. > > Rob K5UJ It had almost got to be that way some years ago when attendance was up to 35k and you had to register for a flea market space weeks ahead of time to get a spot. That drove away the individuals and groups who, at the last minute, would grab a bunch of old stuff and rent a space on the spot. The result was that the flea market became populated almost entirely by professional hamfesters who came to make money, with fewer individual hams coming just to give their surplus inventory a good home. I remember a couple of years going back home with everything I bought stuffed into one shopping bag. When attendance began to drop off with flea market spaces remaining empty, I noticed an uptick in parts and other interesting stuff, and I have been coming back home with more. Don k4kyv From k6xyz at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 29 20:33:16 2016 From: k6xyz at sbcglobal.net (David Harmon) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:33:16 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] FW: HARA Arena to close In-Reply-To: <683CE2CA76E541D3AC6A003AFC9C6AC6@JimPC> References: <001501d1e9de$dd601c50$982054f0$@charter.net><762512687.8089014.1469827930822.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002001d1e9f2$151c03d0$3f540b70$@charter.net> <683CE2CA76E541D3AC6A003AFC9C6AC6@JimPC> Message-ID: <004001d1e9f9$f8226ff0$e8674fd0$@sbcglobal.net> That's right Jim..... I was there last Saturday and it was pitiful. Now the ladies are selling used paperbacks and other kinds of unidentified anti-goglin gizmos. 73 David Harmon K6XYZ Sperry, OK -----Original Message----- From: AMRadio [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of w5jo at brightok.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 7:22 PM To: Donald Chester ; amradio at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [AMRadio] FW: HARA Arena to close The Oklahoma City hamfest, Ham Holiday, is an example of what you say. In the past 10 years they have moved so many times that I call them gypsies. About 10 years back they were in a State Fairgrounds building that allowed people to drive in and unload, now you better bring some sort of conveyance to move what you want to sell. Attendance is less than half of what it was 10 years back, probably 150 vs. around 500 in the past. Poor performance, but the people running the clubs involved are not worried about heavy equipment. It doesn't take much to move a 2 meter rig from the car to a table. Jim W5JO -----Original Message----- Even if they do find a good place, hopefully a better one, I predict attendance will drop precipitously. I've seen it happen before; a longtime hamfest changes venue and it takes years, if ever, for attendance to fully recover. Don k4kyv ______________________________________________________________ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with the word unsubscribe in the message body. This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k6xyz at sbcglobal.net From mjcal77 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 21:03:36 2016 From: mjcal77 at yahoo.com (CL in NC) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 01:03:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AMRadio] The HARA HOORAH finally References: <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Exploding latrines, sewage bubbling up from the street, all the inside bathrooms closed, and a battalion of Port-O-Lets for the masses, year after year. Why did it take so long? Where ever they plan to go, hope all the plumbing works. Charlie, W4MEC in NC From k4kyv at charter.net Sat Jul 30 10:24:56 2016 From: k4kyv at charter.net (Donald Chester) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 09:24:56 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] The HARA HOORAH finally In-Reply-To: <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701d1ea6e$25b02ce0$711086a0$@charter.net> > Exploding latrines, sewage bubbling up from the street, all the inside > bathrooms closed, and a battalion of Port-O-Lets for the masses, year after > year. Why did it take so long? Where ever they plan to go, hope all the > plumbing works. > > Charlie, W4MEC in NC That happened only ONE year as far as I know; I was there to see it. Except for the poor flea market vendors unfortunate enough to be located right in the path of the stream, it was kind of hilarious. They were able to get it cleaned up within an hour or so and it was back to business as usual, except maybe for the unfortunate flea market vendors. I go (or maybe I should say 'went') mainly for the flea market, not to enjoy luxury toilet facilities. After the first few hours, I usually found the outdoor Joy-Johns more inviting than the indoor facilities, because Hammy Hambone there before me either hadn't flushed, or else he used it to discard something unintended, that clogged up the pipe. They had maintenance people on hand, but after a while they couldn't keep up with the task. Not unique to HARA; I've seen exactly the same thing many times at other large public gatherings. Probably 30-50% of the stuff in my station came from the Dayton flea market. I can't rejoice at its closing. Don k4kyv From steinerviolinist at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 10:43:44 2016 From: steinerviolinist at gmail.com (Oliver Steiner) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 10:43:44 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] The HARA HOORAH finally In-Reply-To: <000701d1ea6e$25b02ce0$711086a0$@charter.net> References: <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000701d1ea6e$25b02ce0$711086a0$@charter.net> Message-ID: I never got to attend the Dayton Hamvention and wish they would re-locate it in Atlanta, GA, where I live! Ollie W2QXR On 7/30/16, Donald Chester wrote: >> Exploding latrines, sewage bubbling up from the street, all the inside >> bathrooms closed, and a battalion of Port-O-Lets for the masses, year > after >> year. Why did it take so long? Where ever they plan to go, hope all the >> plumbing works. >> >> Charlie, W4MEC in NC > > That happened only ONE year as far as I know; I was there to see it. > Except > for the poor flea market vendors unfortunate enough to be located right in > the path of the stream, it was kind of hilarious. They were able to get it > cleaned up within an hour or so and it was back to business as usual, > except > maybe for the unfortunate flea market vendors. > > I go (or maybe I should say 'went') mainly for the flea market, not to > enjoy > luxury toilet facilities. After the first few hours, I usually found the > outdoor Joy-Johns more inviting than the indoor facilities, because Hammy > Hambone there before me either hadn't flushed, or else he used it to > discard > something unintended, that clogged up the pipe. They had maintenance > people > on hand, but after a while they couldn't keep up with the task. Not unique > to HARA; I've seen exactly the same thing many times at other large public > gatherings. > > Probably 30-50% of the stuff in my station came from the Dayton flea > market. > I can't rejoice at its closing. > > Don k4kyv > > ______________________________________________________________ > Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net > AMRadio mailing list > Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ > List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html > List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio > Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net > To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with > the word unsubscribe in the message body. > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to steinerviolinist at gmail.com > -- http://oliversteiner.com From w8au at sssnet.com Sat Jul 30 12:42:20 2016 From: w8au at sssnet.com (w8au at sssnet.com) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 12:42:20 -0400 Subject: [AMRadio] The HARA HOORAH finally In-Reply-To: <000701d1ea6e$25b02ce0$711086a0$@charter.net> References: <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000701d1ea6e$25b02ce0$711086a0$@charter.net> Message-ID: Kudos to "the old philosopher of Woodlawn, TN" for his honest appraisal of Dayton over the decades. It matches my thoughts exactly. (Dayton as a kid since 1957) 73, Perry w8au At 10:24 AM 7/30/2016, Donald Chester wrote: > > Exploding latrines, sewage bubbling up from the street, all the inside > > bathrooms closed, and a battalion of Port-O-Lets for the masses, year >after > > year. Why did it take so long? Where ever they plan to go, hope all the > > plumbing works. > > > > Charlie, W4MEC in NC > >That happened only ONE year as far as I know; I was there to see it. Except >for the poor flea market vendors unfortunate enough to be located right in >the path of the stream, it was kind of hilarious. They were able to get it >cleaned up within an hour or so and it was back to business as usual, except >maybe for the unfortunate flea market vendors. > >I go (or maybe I should say 'went') mainly for the flea market, not to enjoy >luxury toilet facilities. After the first few hours, I usually found the >outdoor Joy-Johns more inviting than the indoor facilities, because Hammy >Hambone there before me either hadn't flushed, or else he used it to discard >something unintended, that clogged up the pipe. They had maintenance people >on hand, but after a while they couldn't keep up with the task. Not unique >to HARA; I've seen exactly the same thing many times at other large public >gatherings. > >Probably 30-50% of the stuff in my station came from the Dayton flea market. >I can't rejoice at its closing. > >Don k4kyv > >______________________________________________________________ >Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net >AMRadio mailing list >Archives: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/amradio/ >List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html >List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio >Post: AMRadio at mailman.qth.net >To unsubscribe, send an email to amradio-request at mailman.qth.net with >the word unsubscribe in the message body. > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to w8au at sssnet.com From ranchorobbo at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 18:21:36 2016 From: ranchorobbo at gmail.com (Rob Atkinson) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 17:21:36 -0500 Subject: [AMRadio] The HARA HOORAH finally In-Reply-To: <20160730164210.8262C149B3B9@mailman.qth.net> References: <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <783562948.8071553.1469840616538.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000701d1ea6e$25b02ce0$711086a0$@charter.net> <20160730164210.8262C149B3B9@mailman.qth.net> Message-ID: What made it great in my opinion was not that you'd find a Ranger or Matchbox or Weller soldering iron, but that you'd find weird or unusual items. I have never found tower base insulators at any other hamfest. Dayton is where I found specialized hardware, or a gigantic American Beauty soldering iron that was around 300 watts. One year I suddenly came upon a PreMax base insulator like what they made in the early 1950s for their steel verticals. Never seen one before or since anywhere. I can't begin to recall all the oddball items I've seen but I have not been everywhere. Maybe NearFest or Shelby score high too but compared to regular everyday hamfests, I have found way more items I never expected at Dayton. There is also a lot of junk and professional hamfesters with ridiculous prices and all that, but there are still people willing to drag a lot to Dayton that they don't do anywhere else. Ask vendors who specialize. There's one lady who has nothing but soldering irons and books. she told me she spends the year searching for old soldering irons and books and only goes to Dayton. There's a guy who pretty much only handles air variable caps. People like that are who make it good. Rob K5UJ On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 11:42 AM, wrote: > Kudos to "the old philosopher of Woodlawn, TN" for his honest appraisal of > Dayton over the decades. > > It matches my thoughts exactly. (Dayton as a kid since 1957) > > 73, > Perry w8au

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